getat151 Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) This is a question I started thinking about after coming upon some scriptures in the bible talking about predestiny...when i first started going to church we were told that being saved was a choice we were able to make..but after reading and rereading some of the epistles of paul im starting to think otherwise... Romans Chapter 9 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? There are some that would say that out of foreknowledge god knows who would accept him so he chose those but thats not what these scriptures say.....it says there are vessles (people) made for destruction..... I use to go to church and the pastor would say at the end of every sermon anyone that wants to get saved come to the altar and confess your sin and confess jesus as your personal lord and savior...i would do that and wouldnt feel any different after but the pastor is tellin me im saved now...then years later i went to church with my mom one time not even wanting to go and i was sitting there and my heart started beating fast for no reason then all of a sudden i was called up to the altar and the pastor prayed with me and all of a sudden i felt god and truely confessed him as my savior...the words just came out of my mouth....... When i look back at that moment I realize that was gods choice not mine.......i defenitly fall short and ive definetly fallen into the pit b4 but god showed his mercy on me to give me that experience.........When i look at the Gospels you see he chose matthew, peter, john, and the rest of the disciples...they didnt choose him.......even judas was destined to do what he did so the scriptures could be fulfilled.. So my question to you is freewill or predestiny...and if predestiny does that affect your view on god in anyway? Edited December 31, 2007 by getat151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 31, 2007 After many years, I'm still scratching my head on this same question. God is all knowing, true, but we are not puppets and have a free will. I'll be reading this thread very carefully and allow the Holy Spirit to show me the truth of everyones words. In case you are intrested to what others have said in the past, check out these threads. Free Will and Predestination, Study Predestination vs Free will, another debate Predestination, Election My Changing View on Predestination Predestination, what do you think about it., Your views please Nice Question! Your Brother In Christ, OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted December 31, 2007 predestination~ only because of romans 8:28 and 8:29...yet we have a choice to reject Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Well it's the old calvinism v the arminianism viewpoin again. I will reserve my opinion until Later. t-u-l-i-p. or D-a-i-s-y.....it never goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherEljohari Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 158 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/20/1984 Share Posted December 31, 2007 predestination~ only because of romans 8:28 and 8:29...yet we have a choice to reject Him. I believe God can pentrate anyone. believer or non-believer but the intensity depends on us. Jesus said you can have faith as a mustard seed if you believe that much a mountain can be moved. Imagine what he can do with someone who believes a little more? I also feel its ultimately comes down to who God chooses, and his choice im sure relates to his all-knowing omnipresent nature. Heatherxoxoxo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Another provocative question and to me there is a point that needs clarification. What does it mean to you to be saved? Do you mean the point at which we are born again OR the process through which we 'work out our salvation'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Many are called...but few are chosen...is it because many who are called do not answer their phone calls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehilah Ba'Aretz Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 263 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/02/1954 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Let's face it, God could wipe Satan off the face of creation with a single word. Yet, God allows Satan to tempt mankind. Shouldn't God just wrap things up and be done if it's all decided anyway? On the other hand, God has chosen to allow mankind to think they are capable of making a choice. Now, that's just bizarre. So, Predestiny or Choice? Since the principle of Love is repeated throughout the Bible, cover to cover, I think God wants mankind to love Him. Every worthwhile counselor I know tells me that while infatuation is an emotional response to outside stimuli, love is a conscious choice. I say that while God could easily force me to do His will, He wants me to decide to love Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getat151 Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 I appreciate your guys opinions but none of you explained the scriptures i posted....is St Paul wrong....he said some vessles are made for destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted December 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I appreciate your guys opinions but none of you explained the scriptures i posted....is St Paul wrong....he said some vessles are made for destruction? I haven't given an opinion yet - just wanted to know how you define 'saved' as I mentioned in my previous post. This, to me is an element which many people do not grasp. There is a difference (as it relates to a will to choose) between those who are born of God and those who are not. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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