The Book of Life and Great White Throne judgement

[Massorite]

I am of the school that after the 2nd coming of Christ, Satan will be bound for 1000 years and cast into the bottomless pit, at which time, only those who are Christians will live and reign with Jesus, all others will not live until after Satan is released. After 1000 years, Satan is let go for a little while to gather an army from the four corners of the world to have a battle with Christ. When Satan looses and his army is burned by fire, Satan will be tossed into the lake of fire and brimstone and tormented for ever and ever. After the battle comes the Great White Throne Judgment, where Heaven and Earth will forever flee (destroyed?), for there was found no place for them, and the dead will be judged according to their works and life and whoever is not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire. Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth, at which time the New Jerusalem will descend onto the new earth to be there forever.

I see Heaven as everywhere, for God lives in Heaven and he is everywhere, and we are just a very small part of it, a little spot, if I may.

How does this fit with what you believe?

OneLight

I agree pretty much with what you say except for the earth. In Ecclesiastes 1:4 and many other places in the bible say that the earth "abides for ever" which is a contradiction to the belief that the earth will some time be destroyed. Even if it is rebuilt. I have come to the conclusion that the earth as we know it will be remodeled but not destroyed.

I don't believe that heaven is everywhere. I believe it is the abode of God and we will only go there for a visit when we are presented to Him By Jesus as an exceptable gift. After that as the bible says we will all including God dwell on the earth.

[OneLight]

I am of the school that after the 2nd coming of Christ, Satan will be bound for 1000 years and cast into the bottomless pit, at which time, only those who are Christians will live and reign with Jesus, all others will not live until after Satan is released. After 1000 years, Satan is let go for a little while to gather an army from the four corners of the world to have a battle with Christ. When Satan looses and his army is burned by fire, Satan will be tossed into the lake of fire and brimstone and tormented for ever and ever. After the battle comes the Great White Throne Judgment, where Heaven and Earth will forever flee (destroyed?), for there was found no place for them, and the dead will be judged according to their works and life and whoever is not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire. Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth, at which time the New Jerusalem will descend onto the new earth to be there forever.

I see Heaven as everywhere, for God lives in Heaven and he is everywhere, and we are just a very small part of it, a little spot, if I may.

How does this fit with what you believe?

OneLight

I agree pretty much with what you say except for the earth. In Ecclesiastes 1:4 and many other places in the bible say that the earth "abides for ever" which is a contradiction to the belief that the earth will some time be destroyed. Even if it is rebuilt. I have come to the conclusion that the earth as we know it will be remodeled but not destroyed.

I don't believe that heaven is everywhere. I believe it is the abode of God and we will only go there for a visit when we are presented to Him By Jesus as an exceptable gift. After that as the bible says we will all including God dwell on the earth.

Revelation 21:1 states; Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. The whole chapter 21 of Revelation describes what takes place after the Great White Throne Judgment.

As for Heaven ... if God is in Heaven, and God is everywhere, all at the same time ... we must remember that He is Spiritual, not physical; therefore, He can be all around us and we would never know it.

OneLight

[Pilgrim7]

Fraught,

There is a 'Book of Remembrance' kept by God. I am not sure if it is an actual book, or just His remembrance which is perfect.

Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spoke often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spares his own son that serves him. 3:18 Then shall you return, and discern (judge) between the righteous and the wicked, between he that serves God and he that serves him not.

It would seem that this 'Book of Remembrance' is used to judge between the righteous and the wicked, therefore, it would contain both the good deeds of those who serve God and the sins of those who don't serve Him. Scripture states many times that God blots out sin, so the sins of the Saved would be blotted out of this book and not appear against the believer in the judgment. Those whose sins are not blotted out of the 'Book of Remembrance' would be blotted out of the Book of life.

You see there are many 'believers' who don't really serve God, thus their sins would not be blotted out and their names would ultimately be blotted out of the 'Book of Life'.

Ps 51:1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy loving kindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sins, it (he, she) shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 18:22 All his transgressions that he has committed, they shall not be mentioned to him: in his righteousness that he has done he shall live.

18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return (repent) from his ways, and live?

18:24 But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die.

18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

18:26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in them; for his iniquity that he has done shall he die.

18:27 Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

18:28 Because he considers, and turns away from all his transgressions that he has committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Thus we see the blotting out of sins in the Book.

Another book that will be open is the Word of God, for that is how God determines who serve Him and who do not.

God bless,

Dennis

[JesusisGod2]

My thoughts on this are that those who are in Christ past, present and future who are blessed by thier inclusion in the 1st resurrection, will not be included in the great white throre judgement. For we have already been judged and have had our penaltiy which is death (seperation from God) paid for through the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 20

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

According to Rev 20, those who are of Christ are judged and will reign with Christ and will be priest of God and of Christ. Also notice that it says that the second death (Judgement) has no power over them.

The great white throne judgement will be for those who were not in Christ before the 1st resurrection and those who live through and are born during the 1000 year millinial reign of Christ.

Another verse that tells me that we who are of and in Christ are not included in this judgement is found in Rev 20 and the following verses:

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Notice it says that the dead are judged, we who are of Christ are not dead but very much alive.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Just some thoughts, I look forward to reading other views on the subject.

In Jesus

kevin

[Isa]

Hi guys,

I just had a thought, after the final battle when Satan is cast into the lake of fire, there are still two lots of people who stand before God who have not been judged. 1) The unsaved 2) Those who were in the camp of the saints ( being all believers before the destruction of the world. These two have not been judged yet, maybe and I am just saying maybe these are the ones who stand before the Great White Throne in judgement and the book of life is open for those saints who have just come out of the final battle with the Lord.

Just as JesusisGod2 said those who believe in Christ, past, present and future have already been judged. So as I look at it more those saints who come out of the final battle, because they are written in the book of life are not judged but are told well done my faithful servants and those who are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. Just a thought guys.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Isa

[Pilgrim7]

Judgment begins at the house of God, the 'professed believers' in Christ.

1Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the (unrepentant) sinner appear?

All 'professed believers', spoken of as 'Wedding Guests', are examined, to determine who are true disciples, the wheat, and who are not, the tares. Thus the 'Bride of Christ' is determined before the Marriage which takes place in heaven.

Mat 22:9 Go therefore into the highways, and as many as you shall find (these are the guests), bid to the marriage.

22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad (wheat) and good (tares): and the wedding was furnished with guests.

22:11 And when the king came in to see (examine) the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

22:14 For many (guests) are called, but few (the wheat) are chosen.

When Christ returns for His Bride, all the saved are taken heaven, both dead and living. Those remaining on the earth are destroyed and are raised in the 2nd resurrection for the 'White Throne Judgment' from which none are saved, it is the execution phase of the Judgment, in which the punishment of the lost, including the tares who were separated from the wheat during the 'judgment that began at the house of God'.

This examination of the 'church' takes place prior to the return of Christ for His Bride, for He receives to himself only His 'bride who is without spot or wrinkle' at this time. This examination commences while His people are still on the earth, for this judgment commences with the warnings about the 'mark of the beast' and 'false worship' and the identification of His real bride, those who 'keep the Commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus'.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him (the one who created) that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen (Mystery Babylon, not literal Babylon), is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (so here we see judgment of the church commences with this warning of worshiping the beast which is the 'mark of the beast')

14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

14:12 Here is the patience (perseverance or endurance) of the saints (holy ones, wheat, saved): here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (here is a description of the saints, those who pass the examination of the Wedding guests, the 'Bride of Christ' who are 'without spot or wrinkle' when Christ returns for His Bride to take her to Her bridal suite, the New Jerusalem)

Thus when Jesus returns, the determination of saved and lost has already been made, all that remains is to execute punishment on the lost. This is the part that the saved have in judgment, in apportioning the ultimate punishment of the lost. This is why Scripture states that the saved will even judge angels.

When Jesus returns for His bride, all of the saved will be taken with Him in the 'New Jerusalem' in heaven. All who remain on the earth are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. They await the 2nd resurrection for the 'White throne Judgment'. All are condemned at this judgment, and punished proportional to their sins. This includes the tares who were separated from the Wheat when 'judgment began at the House of God'. All at this judgment suffer the 2nd death, which is death in the 'lake of fire'.

God bless,

Dennis

[Christian]

Greetings Brother Dennis,

Your responses raise a few questions for me. As you've already supplied the scriptures in your post relevant to my curiousity, I've asked for just "yes" or "no" answers merely so that I can keep the query concise, and on point. Of course there is wiggle room if you should like to elaborate briefly on your response/reason.

When Christ returns for His Bride, all the saved are taken heaven, both dead and living. Those remaining on the earth are destroyed and are raised in the 2nd resurrection for the 'White Throne Judgment' from which none are saved, it is the execution phase of the Judgment, in which the punishment of the lost, including the tares who were separated from the wheat during the 'judgment that began at the house of God'.

Question#1(YES or NO) Do you believe the moment you are speaking of above to be that which is spoken of in 1Thessalonians 4:16-17?

(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Question#2(YES or NO) Do you consider this to be the same moment spoken of in Matthew 24:30-31

(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Question#3(YES or NO) If this is the moment being spoken of in 1Thessalonians 4:16-17, you believe that we return to heaven with Christ, and not that He returns to earth here to begin His 1000 year reign?

Question#4(YES or NO) You believe this assembly in heaven that occurs right after 1Thessalonians 4:16-17, to be the Wedding Feast that Christ spoke of?

When Jesus returns for His bride, all of the saved will be taken with Him in the 'New Jerusalem' in heaven. All who remain on the earth are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. They await the 2nd resurrection for the 'White throne Judgment'.

Question#5(YES or NO) You're saying that all those in Christ (alive and dead) are taken to heaven, and the remaining civilization/mankind of Earth is wiped out completely?

Question#6 If your answer to #5 is yes, than who is spoken of as being gathered in Revelation 20:8?

(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

(If your answer to #6 was no, than there is no need to elaborate)

Blessings and much agape love to you my brother,

His faithful servant,

Christian

[Massorite]

Fraught,

There is a 'Book of Remembrance' kept by God. I am not sure if it is an actual book, or just His remembrance which is perfect.

Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spoke often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spares his own son that serves him. 3:18 Then shall you return, and discern (judge) between the righteous and the wicked, between he that serves God and he that serves him not.

It would seem that this 'Book of Remembrance' is used to judge between the righteous and the wicked, therefore, it would contain both the good deeds of those who serve God and the sins of those who don't serve Him. Scripture states many times that God blots out sin, so the sins of the Saved would be blotted out of this book and not appear against the believer in the judgment. Those whose sins are not blotted out of the 'Book of Remembrance' would be blotted out of the Book of life.

You see there are many 'believers' who don't really serve God, thus their sins would not be blotted out and their names would ultimately be blotted out of the 'Book of Life'.

Ps 51:1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy loving kindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sins, it (he, she) shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 18:22 All his transgressions that he has committed, they shall not be mentioned to him: in his righteousness that he has done he shall live.

18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return (repent) from his ways, and live?

18:24 But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die.

18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

18:26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in them; for his iniquity that he has done shall he die.

18:27 Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

18:28 Because he considers, and turns away from all his transgressions that he has committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Thus we see the blotting out of sins in the Book.

Another book that will be open is the Word of God, for that is how God determines who serve Him and who do not.

God bless,

Dennis

But there is no place in the bible where it says that the book of life has a record os sins written in it. There is only scripture that tells us that there are names written in the book of Life.

And where is this book of Rememberance spoken of in the bible?

[Pilgrim7]

Brother Christian,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes and no questions are extremely difficult due to the complex nature of Scripture and the inter-relationship of complimentary verses.

But here goes.

Question#1(YES or NO) Do you believe the moment you are speaking of above to be that which is spoken of in 1Thessalonians 4:16-17?

(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Yes! Paul continues the thought in chapter 5 and ties the two together:

1Thes 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I write to you.

5:2 For you know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety (secret rapture); then sudden destruction come upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Question#2(YES or NO) Do you consider this to be the same moment spoken of in Matthew 24:30-31

(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Yes! See Luke 17 concerning the days of Lot and Noah:

Question#3(YES or NO) If this is the moment being spoken of in 1Thessalonians 4:16-17, you believe that we return to heaven with Christ, and not that He returns to earth here to begin His 1000 year reign?

Yes! No one left on earth to reign over.

Question#4(YES or NO) You believe this assembly in heaven that occurs right after 1Thessalonians 4:16-17, to be the Wedding Feast that Christ spoke of?

Yes! Jesus takes His bride to the feast to present her to His Father, and carry her into the Bridal chamber He has prepared.

Question#5(YES or NO) You're saying that all those in Christ (alive and dead) are taken to heaven, and the remaining civilization/mankind of Earth is wiped out completely?

Yes! Luke 17, states on the same day.

Question#6 If your answer to #5 is yes, than who is spoken of as being gathered in Revelation 20:8?

(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

(If your answer to #6 was no, than there is no need to elaborate)

They would be all those who are raised, all the lost, in the 2nd Resurrection. You see all these Scriptures need to harmonize. When they do not, then we have a wrong understanding of Scripture. In the four quarters of the earth I believe means all those who dwell in the earth, who are buried in the earth. They are raised for Judgment and think that they can still fight God. This shows that their condemnation is just and God forces every knee to bow and every tongue to confess that He is Lord, and then pronounces sentence on them.

I realize these things are difficult to understand. This is what the Lord has showed me. I have not found any other presentation that could harmonize all these Scriptures.

I tried, but I guess I failed. I would be more than happy to discuss any one of these in more detail.

God Bless you brother, I appreciate your humility and Godly love in all our communications, God is putting together His Jewels,

Dennis

[Pilgrim7]

Brother Massorite,

God bless you and thanks for your reply.

You wrote:

But there is no place in the bible where it says that the book of life has a record our sins written in it. There is only scripture that tells us that there are names written in the book of Life.

I didn't say that the Book of Life has our sins recorded in it. I said that it was probably the book of Remembrance, for God remembers everything, whether written or not. If the believers sins are blotted out, then they must be recorded somewhere, and being the Book of Remembrance is the only other book mentioned, then I believe they would be their and that is where they would be blotted out of, blotted out of God's remembrance.

And where is this book of Remembrance spoken of in the bible?

In my last post to you I quoted Mal. 3:16-18 in which the Book of Remembrance is mentioned as being used to discern or judge between the righteous and the wicked.

These things are hardly ever talked about for not many want to think about the judgment for it can be unsettling for the 'Lukewarm'.

May God richly bless you in you pursuit of truth,

Dennis