Out of Order?

[Guest Biblicist]

Jackie dear...

There are many forms of abuse, not just physical. And, imho, a woman who lourds it over her husband on a daily basis, nagging and controlling him, a contentious wife if you will, is abusive of him, just as if he were to hit her.

But the Bible does counsel us on living with abusive people. While not directly, somewhat indirectly. Although, as a disclaimer, I believe that every instance is individual and for a person to apply the same principals to every situation without knowledge and understanding of the situation personally would be wrong. Proper, Godly counsel can not be given unless there is a complete understanding and intimate knowledge of the person and their situation. Which of course, requires friendship, time and commitment.

1 Peter 2

18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.

20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.

21To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 "He committed no sin,

and no deceit was found in his mouth."

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.

24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

........

1 Peter 3

1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.

Jesus Christ endured much abuse at the hands of other's for our sakes. He submitted himself to the authorities, even unto death. For our salvation. In the same way we can endure abuse, whether it be physical, emotional, psychological, for Christ's sake, for the furtherance of His kingdom, so that our husbands will be won over, not with our words but with our behaviour. Are we slaves? Was Christ? When we humble ourselves, as Christ did, and take punishment for doing right, we will be exalted in the Kingdom of Heaven.

No matter what scars have been left by our lives, I think we are all abused in one way or another, this is an abusive world [that's why churches are called hospitals for sinners] "By his stripes we are healed!"

I know abuse. I've suffered it, and I've dealt it out. Cycles are not often easy to break. But I know that as long as I continue to submit to God and His word, no matter what my circumstances, I will one day have many crowns to throw at the Saviours feet!

As an asside note...A man, or woman, who does not know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour can not be expected to follow Biblical principles. The most important thing in a relationship with an unbeliever is showing them CHRIST, even if that means suffering at their hands for the cause of Christ.

[tsth]

Dear bibs,

I completely understand about the mother issue! I can only say that your husband and children will always come first. I've had to deal with some very serious issues too with regard to mine, but I'll save that for a pm or another time.

Dear jackie,

I do hope you read some of the posts in here, about examining our familial cycles. It is vital to you being able to "plant different seeds" so to speak, so that you will end up with a different type of crop.

God bless you both! (Don't think that we don't know what you're talking about, we do, and we also know how painful it can be.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Vickilynn]

Jackie dear...

There are many forms of abuse, not just physical. And, imho, a woman who lourds it over her husband on a daily basis, nagging and controlling him, a contentious wife if you will, is abusive of him, just as if he were to hit her.

But the Bible does counsel us on living with abusive people. While not directly, somewhat indirectly. Although, as a disclaimer, I believe that every instance is individual and for a person to apply the same principals to every situation without knowledge and understanding of the situation personally would be wrong. Proper, Godly counsel can not be given unless there is a complete understanding and intimate knowledge of the person and their situation. Which of course, requires friendship, time and commitment.

1 Peter 2

18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.

20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.

21To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 "He committed no sin,

and no deceit was found in his mouth."

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.

24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

........

1 Peter 3

1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.

Jesus Christ endured much abuse at the hands of other's for our sakes. He submitted himself to the authorities, even unto death. For our salvation. In the same way we can endure abuse, whether it be physical, emotional, psychological, for Christ's sake, for the furtherance of His kingdom, so that our husbands will be won over, not with our words but with our behaviour. Are we slaves? Was Christ? When we humble ourselves, as Christ did, and take punishment for doing right, we will be exalted in the Kingdom of Heaven.

No matter what scars have been left by our lives, I think we are all abused in one way or another, this is an abusive world [that's why churches are called hospitals for sinners] "By his stripes we are healed!"

I know abuse. I've suffered it, and I've dealt it out. Cycles are not often easy to break. But I know that as long as I continue to submit to God and His word, no matter what my circumstances, I will one day have many crowns to throw at the Saviours feet!

As an asside note...A man, or woman, who does not know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour can not be expected to follow Biblical principles. The most important thing in a relationship with an unbeliever is showing them CHRIST, even if that means suffering at their hands for the cause of Christ.

Shalom Bib,

G-d bless you dear. You are such a precious sister. I thank you for your unwavering devotion to G-d's Word. It's not easy sometimes, but HE empowers us to walk in His ways, which are always right,

I too suffered abuse and I too daily fight the temptation to boss my husband. But, it is a fleshly thing and one that if I continue to lay it down, G-d will continue to bless. It is a CHOICE to either serve my flesh which wants to rule or obey G-d and submit to Him, by submitting to my husband. Sometimes, it's the hardest thing to do, but I know the Holy Spirit gives me the strength and I only need walk in it.

Oh, there are times I fail and have to repent and come and submit and those times are growing times as well. None of us has arrived, but it's a matter of the heart. I have no excuse for not following G-d's order, whether my husband does or not. That is the point. I stand accountable for what I do, not what he does. And I want to be found doing G-d's will by submitting to His order, not found rebelling and making excuses why I can't do it His way. He provides all I need to do it His way if I will just DO IT!

[ladygirl21]

I believe a women shouldn't have to get married. She should if she want be married to Christ alone. I think it is better to be a virgin to marry. For she cares of the things of her master. A married women cares for her husband. I rather care for God then a man anyway because in the end God will all ways back me up. Also, the end times may be here but why worry when we are christians. Keep your eyes on Christ and you'll make it to the promise land regardless.

[Neopatriarch]

I believe a women shouldn't have to get married.

Marriage is the norm in God's design (Gen 2:24). Why wouldn't you want it?

She should if she want be married to Christ alone.

Individuals are not married to Christ. Christ isn't a polygamist. It is the collective body of the church that is married to Christ.

I think it is better to be a virgin to marry.

Unless you're burning with passion. (1 Cor. 7:9)

For she cares of the things of her master. A married women cares for her husband. I rather care for God then a man anyway because in the end God will all ways back me up.

What of married Christians? Do they not care as much for God as unmarried Christians? Perhaps we married folks are just not as spiritual unmarried.

-Neopatriarch

[tsth]

I believe a women shouldn't have to get married. She should if she want be married to Christ alone. I think it is better to be a virgin to marry. For she cares of the things of her master. A married women cares for her husband. I rather care for God then a man anyway because in the end God will all ways back me up. Also, the end times may be here but why worry when we are christians. Keep your eyes on Christ and you'll make it to the promise land regardless.

lady is justified in her post above:

1 Cor. 7:31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. 32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he can please his wife-- 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world--how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Vickilynn]

I believe a women shouldn't have to get married. She should if she want be married to Christ alone. I think it is better to be a virgin to marry. For she cares of the things of her master. A married women cares for her husband. I rather care for God then a man anyway because in the end God will all ways back me up. Also, the end times may be here but why worry when we are christians. Keep your eyes on Christ and you'll make it to the promise land regardless.

Shalom Ladygirl21,

What a beautiful post! Amen! I felt the same way as a woman in my 20's. But the L-rd brought someone into my life and we married when I was 26. I don't regret either decision. You do as the L-rd leads you.

A woman does not have to get married and can be totally focused on Messiah rather than a husband and family if she chooses and feels called to live this way.

[Guest Biblicist]

In my opinion...woman does not have to get married. But man sure does.

The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

[Vickilynn]

I believe a women shouldn't have to get married.

Marriage is the norm in God's design (Gen 2:24).

Shalom Neo,

However, it is not a command for all.

Why wouldn't you want it?

That's no one's concern except the person and G-d.

She should if she want be married to Christ alone.

Individuals are not married to Christ. Christ isn't a polygamist. It is the collective body of the church that is married to Christ.

In a spiritual sense Neo.

I think it is better to be a virgin to marry.

Unless you're burning with passion. (1 Cor. 7:9)

Again, that's between the person and G-d.

For she cares of the things of her master. A married women cares for her husband. I rather care for God then a man anyway because in the end God will all ways back me up.

What of married Christians? Do they not care as much for God as unmarried Christians? Perhaps we married folks are just not as spiritual unmarried.

Please, just read the truth is from Scriptures, that an unmarried man or woman is more concerned about the L-rd's affairs, not their spouse. Absolutely truth.

And again, the Scriptures say exactly what this poster has, so there should be no argument with her!

1 Cor. 7:31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. 32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he can please his wife-- 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world--how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

[Neopatriarch]

Shalom Neo,

However, it is not a command for all.

True. But my point is that, since marriage is the norm, I would expect those who decide to remain unmarried to have reasons for not getting married. If the issue is whether or not some individual should get married or not, the fact that marriage is the norm suggests to me that the burden of proof lies with the one who is deciding not to. That's all. One reason this issue concerns me is that much of our culture glorifies singleness. Look at Seinfeld for example. It seems that marriage is too much of an infringement on personal autonomy to be worth it. This is sad.

That's no one's concern except the person and G-d.

ladygirl21 broached the topic. So I assumed she was interested in discussing it.

Individuals are not married to Christ. Christ isn't a polygamist. It is the collective body of the church that is married to Christ.

In a spiritual sense Neo.

That is the sense in which I was speaking. I was unmarried until I was 37. The idea that I as an individual was married to Christ seemed a little gay to me. I love Christ, but not that way.

And again, the Scriptures say exactly what this poster has, so there should be no argument with her!

1 Cor. 7:31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. 32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he can please his wife-- 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world--how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

I guess I'm not clear on how this resolves my question. Of course, I'll accept scripture whatever it says, but I would also like to understand it. Could you interpret this for me?

-Neopatriarch