Out of Order?

[Vickilynn]

Once agin, vickylynn said:

The main thing for us women to realize is what you just posted:

The submissive role is not abrogated if the husband is a non-Christian.

This is where I think so many people get into trouble. If the MAN is not in his role, then some think that means the woman should step in. Not so! We are to remain in our roles as women, whether or not the man does the right thing.

Shalom WSB,

How can a christian seriously sit there and type that?

Because it is the Scriptural truth. G-d's ways are the right ways. I'll obey him rather than people's opinions.

Please, do read your Bible.

Oh, I HAVE! And guess what? The Bible says what I said above:

1 Peter 3:1-2 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.

Now WSB, please read YOUR Bible and see it says women are to submit to their husbands in everything.

Ephesians 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

[Guest Biblicist]

If you were to remove women from their position in your particular church, what would you have?

Shalom David,

In keeping with the request of the OP and staying on the topic of marriage, if the women were removed, they would stay at home and minister to their family, under their husband's authority!!

AMEN! Vickilynn. We are to "take care of the store". Our main priority is husband and home. Everything else, according to the Proverbs 31 woman, comes after that. Including, I might add, ourselves.

I had a cousin who's marriage fell apart because her neighbor, a man, told her to "think of herself". I won't tell you of the life she has lead since then. It's tragic. I love her and it's difficult to see what selfishness has brought to her life. My nephew's marriage also fell apart because his wife was "tired of thinking of other's all the time".

Philippians 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

[Vickilynn]

So wait, I'm not allowed to post on the husband/wife thing but you are? I'm off topic if I discuss it but you aren't?

Shalom WSB,

Very funny, really.

No, your comments on marriage are fine, it's the OTHER comments that are off topic as you well know.

now you are double hypocrite, once for violating your own core principles, as previously discussed, which you conveniently do not address how you can possibly hold to your own interpretation of scripture, and yet justify debating with a man about anything at all.

Is that like "Double Dog Dare?" Really, this is so immature!

And as has been posted repeatedly, women posting on a message board do not violate the Scriptures as they are not usurping spiritual authority over men. None of y'all are my husband and this is not a church. Sorry, your Straw Man argument does not work, might as well quit playing it.

I suspect this thread is going to get locked soon enough, like the other one.

And I suspect that you are doing your best to get it that way. Perhaps if we all just ignored your attacks and rudeness, then we could discuss this topic like mature Christians and the thread would not be locked. Just a thought.

[jackie d]

which I said, "The Bible clearly says otherwise." and showed several different types of situations both from scripture and hypotheticals, in which a person BETTER disobey the "earthly authority", even if it isn't strictly sinful.

But then I'm accused of witchcraft for saying that.

They attempted to support their position by calling me a witch, and ignoring anything other than their tunnel vision and quote-one-scripture-out-of-context approach.

WSB, the hypocrites said that Jesus casted out demons by Beelzubub too...rejoice in it and thank Him.

[Vickilynn]

and of course people are only "mature" if they agree with you.

Shalom WSB,

No they are mature if they do not lob personal assaults and continued personal accusations and continually, rebelliously go off topic. They are mature if they can discuss these Scriptural issues without anger.

BTW, I'm not the one you disagree with here. I'm not the OP and I'm not the only one posting G-d's Word in rebuttal to your posts. Again, mature Christians do not make discussions personal arguments.

[Vickilynn]

Everyone else has supported their positions with scripture as well. You want to put out a scripture on mutual submission, and ignore numerous others that clearly show a line of authority. Here is how mutual submission works. This is coming from someone who has been married 22 years. My wife has some type of need, and asks me to meet it. It might be going to the store, running an errand, taking care of a problem, etc. I generally do those things for her, so that is a type of submission. At the same time, when there is something we dissagree on, I ultimately make the final decision. This doesn't happen often, but does from time to time. This is not rocket science.

You also continue to ignore all the scriptures that teach how we are to submit to authorities. Apparently you don't like the fact that when you teach rebellion, you are guilty of witchcraft. I can't help that. That is what the Bible says.

Shalom Butero,

Thank you for these comments! Amen!

And as a side comment:

My husband and I have been married for 25 years next month. Praise G-d for His mercy and grace!

[jackie d]

quote of Butero:

obey those with the rule over us

[Vickilynn]

maybe using the word ruling over another should be reconsidered in this conversation

Shalom Jackie,

The word is valid according to the Scriptures, which are the authority here:

Genesis 3:16

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Jackie,

More from G-d's Word:

1 Timothy 3:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

[Guest Biblicist]

IN LIKE MANNER.......

1 Peter 2

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority,

14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

15 For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.

16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.

20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.

21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 "He committed no sin,

and no deceit was found in his mouth."

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.

24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

1 Peter 3

1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,

2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.

3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes.

4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.

5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands,

6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

Jesus is our example, we should act, and react, in the same way.... with submission.

Philippians 2

3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.

5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,

did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

7 but made himself nothing,

taking the very nature of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

8 And being found in appearance as a man,

he humbled himself

and became obedient to death