If you were alone but could build robots

[dgolvach]

Neither, their faults and blemishes reflect my faults as a creator and it would be hypocritical of me to value one group more than the other.

Love loses its meaning if it forced, can one experience true love without knowing what hate feels like? "Only he who has experienced ultimate despair can feel ultimate bliss" and such.

OK ...I would take this to mean that in order for true love to exist, it requires the possibility of rejection or even hate. So I don't see how the first group of robots I described are really capable of true love because its not voluntary. So to create true love...there must be a risk and a willingness to feel pain from rejection. Is there pain in paradise?

Dan

[jackie d]

Neither, their faults and blemishes reflect my faults as a creator and it would be hypocritical of me to value one group more than the other.

Love loses its meaning if it forced, can one experience true love without knowing what hate feels like? "Only he who has experienced ultimate despair can feel ultimate bliss" and such.

OK ...I would take this to mean that in order for true love to exist, it requires the possibility of rejection or even hate. So I don't see how the first group of robots I described are really capable of true love because its not voluntary. So to create true love...there must be a risk and a willingness to feel pain from rejection. Is there pain in paradise?

Dan

are you talking of man's idea of paradise or what God has in store for us?

[dgolvach]

Neither, their faults and blemishes reflect my faults as a creator and it would be hypocritical of me to value one group more than the other.

Love loses its meaning if it forced, can one experience true love without knowing what hate feels like? "Only he who has experienced ultimate despair can feel ultimate bliss" and such.

OK ...I would take this to mean that in order for true love to exist, it requires the possibility of rejection or even hate. So I don't see how the first group of robots I described are really capable of true love because its not voluntary. So to create true love...there must be a risk and a willingness to feel pain from rejection. Is there pain in paradise?

Dan

are you talking of man's idea of paradise or what God has in store for us?

I have come to understand that God feels things as we do. Joy, pleasure, humor, love. ect. But the Bible clearly teaches that he experiences pain, grief, sadness, rejection, anger, jealously (although I believe his jelously is different than ours) as well. Yet he is in heaven or paridise. Or is heaven currently paridise? I am not doubting God but it seems like he has chosen to make himself emotionly vulnerable by creating us with free will. I suspect I myself have caused him pain. I also feel a new drive to make him feel love by loving him so I won't hurt him anymore. My new understanding is that this gives him great pleasure because its a choice I owned. Not him. But to borrow a term from the newagers, there must be a "yinyang" principal at work here because I understand that it grieves him when humans reject him. I don't understand grief in heaven but I do understand how the yinyang principal seems nessecary for true love to occur which is what our God in heaven clearly seeks.

It seems like a reasonable question. Again...I'm not doubting God. Its just that I dont understand how true love can be created and experienced in a painless place. Actually theres much I don't understand yet) True love is refine through pain. So is there pain in heaven where our Father is?

I know God the Son felt pain but that was here on earth.

Let me say this. I'm sure that I love God regardless if all of my questions are answered.

I love him big time. I just tend to ponder.

Dan

[jackie d]

I'm gonna have to look up yinyang to see what you are meaning about it and how it could compare with our relationship with God...I have no clue what the word means...I'll try to remember to get back to you on that part...

I think that something we don't understand because we are wired with a lot of different emotions and know only how to get through life for the most part functioning on feeling, is that God would have THE understanding and know how to CONTROL emotions that stem from feelings such as pain....as grief would be equal to us as a feeling of pain we can only view it in how we "feel" the emotion...to take this a step further regarding how we experience different things such as grief, I have had very distinct moments when grief or joy is incredibly recognized as a feeling that is coming from my spirit and NOT my soul which is where most reaction lives...it is a very different experience and that is perhaps where God may "experience" things such as grief, joy anger...and I don't state these things as fact, but conjecture.....some would like to tell us that we shouldn't let our feelings and emotions that come from the soul effect us, but it is impossible not to since we are wired to be the way we are...those who tell us that for the most part are incredibly cold and uptight people, who don't seem to have any joy in their life...eww, I don't ever want to be like that..we cannot shut off our emotions any more than we can tell our brains to stop thinking...

now as far as your intitial post, I would choose the robot with free will any day...like God I want people to want me. It is more fulfilling and enjoyable for me to have people like me and treat me good because they genuinely love me, instead of just pretending because someone told them or programmed them too. In real life I can make no one love me and if there was even one out there that loved me because they were simply made to love me as you have described in the other robot....I personally would be even more lonely than I am today having a few love me than many who say they do and have no concept what really loving another person is about.

blessings

[dgolvach]

I'm gonna have to look up yinyang to see what you are meaning about it and how it could compare with our relationship with God...I have no clue what the word means...I'll try to remember to get back to you on that part...

I think that something we don't understand because we are wired with a lot of different emotions and know only how to get through life for the most part functioning on feeling, is that God would have THE understanding and know how to CONTROL emotions that stem from feelings such as pain....as grief would be equal to us as a feeling of pain we can only view it in how we "feel" the emotion...to take this a step further regarding how we experience different things such as grief, I have had very distinct moments when grief or joy is incredibly recognized as a feeling that is coming from my spirit and NOT my soul which is where most reaction lives...it is a very different experience and that is perhaps where God may "experience" things such as grief, joy anger...and I don't state these things as fact, but conjecture.....some would like to tell us that we shouldn't let our feelings and emotions that come from the soul effect us, but it is impossible not to since we are wired to be the way we are...those who tell us that for the most part are incredibly cold and uptight people, who don't seem to have any joy in their life...eww, I don't ever want to be like that..we cannot shut off our emotions any more than we can tell our brains to stop thinking...

now as far as your intitial post, I would choose the robot with free will any day...like God I want people to want me. It is more fulfilling and enjoyable for me to have people like me and treat me good because they genuinely love me, instead of just pretending because someone told them or programmed them too. In real life I can make no one love me and if there was even one out there that loved me because they were simply made to love me as you have described in the other robot....I personally would be even more lonely than I am today having a few love me than many who say they do and have no concept what really loving another person is about.

blessings

Jackie....one of the things that has occurred to me is that we freewill creatures are unique in all of creation because we do have the ability to express true love because of our free will. Yinyang is just an old oriental pricipal that states in order for positives to be possible, negatives must exist as well or at least the possibility of a negative. We arent robots because we have sovereignty over our ability to accept or reject God. I believe evrything I claim to own is really God's. My body, soul, possesions, money, home, cars ect..The only thing he does not own in my choice. Thats mine. The Yinyang aspect is the accept or reject part. Of course I accept my awsome beautiful creator but I didn't have to. I suspect this is why God is so concentrated on us. I feel in my own life that hes focused on me as I'm sure you do as well. We have great value to him because our love is not programmed like a robot. He dosen't make us love him. While I believe that angels are freewill creatures, there are ways that we humans have of expressing love that even Angels don't have. Humans have a great potential for loving thats unlike any other creature. (I think) Its a amazing opportunity if you think about it. Perhaps the meaning of life is learning how to give God the maximum amount of pleasure with our love. This is where the living sacrifice part comes in. When we resist sin we are saying to God "I love you more than what gives me pleasure". Sacraficial love is very powerful as Christ showed us.

Just my guess.

God Bless

Dan

[Gavinder]

OK ...I would take this to mean that in order for true love to exist, it requires the possibility of rejection or even hate. So I don't see how the first group of robots I described are really capable of true love because its not voluntary. So to create true love...there must be a risk and a willingness to feel pain from rejection. Is there pain in paradise?

If there is a paradise then we as humans would have felt pain in our mortal lives here. Experiencing pain makes your joys all the sweeter.