Has the church wrongly embraced the message of "The Power of Posi

[Ddavid from NC]

Norman Vinvent Peale wrote a book entitled The Power of Positive Thinking. His prodigee Robert Shuller built a ministry around it, and in this generation Joel Osteen has carries the torch. TV preachers repackaged it and called the "Prosperity gospel". Is this a distortion and mirepresentation of the Bible and wrongly focused the followers of Christ?

[thunderbyrd]

YES.

[Trusting Jesus]

Well, did Jesus preach it? This "blab it and grab it" way of thinking is really a self-centered, all about me and what I want approach to life. Christ didn't preach this.

"And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Luke 9:58

This was what Jesus told a man who had just said he would follow Jesus wherever He went. Jesus didn't tell him that he would get whatever he wanted if he would follow Him. No, following Jesus can mean giving up luxuary. Following Christ means caring for others and forgetting "self".

'But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matthew 5:39

I know that the "name it and claim it" way of thinking comes from Luke chapter 11 where Jesus tells us to pray persistantly...ask...seek...knock But He also tells us to pray "Thy will be done". We can ask earnestly for anything from God, but we need to ask according to His will.

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Nathele

[Bolts]

I Read a couple of Robert Schullers books when I was a new christian. It expanded my thinking, but didn't really change my circumstances. I suppose it was good shot in the arm.

[Guest]

The Jesus I read about in the New Testament said we were to "take up the cross, deny ourselves, and follow Him." The prosperity gospel is completely the opposite of that. It's all about self, house, cars, and things of this world. Taking up the cross means something different for each believer and where they happen to be in their walk with the Lord.

I've had some discussions with some who are into the prosperity gospel, and it does not work for everyone. Many get soured on the whole idea of Christianity when the "$1000 seed" or whatever doesn't generate a return for them. In fact, there are many churches in persecuted countries that ask only one thing from American Christians: the Bible. They aren't interested in anything else but God's Word. There's a lesson we could learn from that, I think.

[Yeshua01]

It is nice to have a positive outlook on life, but the warm and fuzzies is not what Yeshua (Jesus) taught.

Many people are being deceived in the church today because they are being presented the pick and choose Bible instead of the soul winning Gospel. There are those names that have been mentioned in this thread among others that are interested in builing the numbers in their congregation, but these numbers do not exactly mean an increase in God's Kingdom.

I would hate to be the one on Judgement Day that is tod "depart from me, I never knew you".

[Big Time]

I've listened to Olsteen a few times and I like him.

He doesn't sugar-coat this world as much as some people say he does, he just reminds people that God never meant us to be completely miserable and that all of our real needs will be met.

[Guest]

LOL David... I smell a can of worms

I started a thread on something similar when I just came out of (delivered is actually more the word) the WoF movement and can smell a WoF-er coming from a mile away

So I'm not even going to go there for now and will just sit and watch for the can of worms to be opened...

Much Love in Jesus

Esther

Just watch, soon the worms will be wriggling all over the place.

[Treasure]

Waiting for the worms.

Osteen and the like have been discussed over and over Big Time. If you haven't already, do some research and find for yourself what he has to say, even apart from the pulpit.

[AnExample]

I believe it has to do with the condition of your heart. In other words, "what's motivating you?" Is your attempt to acquire personal wealth to enable you to give more to the kingdom of God financially...i.e. to do more to feed the hungry, and provide for those with no health insurance. I don't have a problem with wealth and the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus said himself, I came to give life more abundantly. I believe there is duplicity in that statement, while on earth and supernaturally. Refer to the Book of Acts...Believers were wealthy and used what they had to further the gospel. Your heart has to be right. Look at the young rich ruler, He loved his earthly riches more than he loved God or God's agenda. It was his heart condition. The same problem was with Ananias and Sapphira.

And...while Jesus Christ as son of man, was a carpenter who lived a meager lifestyle, as Son of God He holds the wealth of the world in his hand. As believers in Christ Jesus, we too are sons of God with an inheritance and privileges. I also believe that "poor" has to do with the poor in spirit (humility) not always and inclusively pertaining to financial means. I also believe that wealth is a mindset, just as happiness is.

We all know that it is money/capital has becomes earth driving source. It used to be that people bartered with goods. However, since money has taken a front postion in this world, without it, there's almost nothing you can do. In fact, very basic needs are hard to meet without money. The word speaks about "the love of money" being the root of all evil. This is when money is your god and you place the pursuit of it above God the father and people...a clear violation of the two great commandments. 1) love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul and to love your neighbor as yourself. Spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ through airwaves requires money; however, when you use those funds for self indulgences, self promotion, self edification, etc., I believe that's when you cross the line--getting into trouble with God.

The word tells us that pride comes before the fall. Often times, it's not having money, that's the problem it's the love of it and the power that goes with having a lot of it that makes one prideful. And we all know that it was pride that got satan kicked out of heaven. He wanted God's seat.

Often times, when powerful charismatics gain earthly wealth and notoriety, they forget their "first love", and begin to think of themselves as indispenseable, unapproachable and celebrity. Love of Money is the root and pride, manipulation, & control are fruits it bears.

In many ways the prosperity gospel teaches one to put their wants and desires first. As opposed to the will of God over the will of man. If we don't hear God's voice to know what He wants, whatever else we do will not last.