"spiritual identification"

[Richard_yaash]

2 Thessalonians 2:4

The spirit of the one who "opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

The spirit of the one in verse 2 speaks of the anti-chritst spirit that has been with us all along.

The 'man of sin' or 'son of perdition'.

What if: This is not a singular 'man', but rather a type of 'man'?

I am not insinuating that it is, simply asking the question.

Then how would that type of man enter the temple and be an abomination of desolation, calling himself/themselves God and demanding worship?

For me, we could compare such as: "so that he sits as God in the temple of God" v. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat"

Did they literally sit in Moses' seat? Or was it figurative for they occupied that 'position'?

Again, I am merely speculating and bouncing ideas currently.

As for studying prophesy, it has been awhile, and then it was just for about 7 or 8 months ... I should, like Jackie, dig in and stop relying on memory. And I agree, everything starts from the heart ...

I need to at the very least read through it again. It has been too long and I no longer have any of my former notes.

[Guest man]

2 Thessalonians 2:4

The spirit of the one who "opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

The spirit of the one in verse 2 speaks of the anti-chritst spirit that has been with us all along.

The 'man of sin' or 'son of perdition'.

What if: This is not a singular 'man', but rather a type of 'man'?

I am not insinuating that it is, simply asking the question.

Then how would that type of man enter the temple and be an abomination of desolation, calling himself/themselves God and demanding worship?

For me, we could compare such as: "so that he sits as God in the temple of God" v. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat"

Did they literally sit in Moses' seat? Or was it figurative for they occupied that 'position'?

Again, I am merely speculating and bouncing ideas currently.

I believe it's going to be an individual.

[jenwat3]

What is the one thing, though, that would set Christians apart, and make them unable to buy or sell? Possibly even be unable to hold a job, since they would have no money to buy, or be unable to sell anything?

That is indeed the question Jenwat. There are some possibilities...

Any particular ideas, Richard? I have my own theory, but what is yours? Pm if you don't want to post out loud.

May I have a little time to think through my answer before giving it?

Of course not! I want an answer immediately!

[OneLight]

for the abomination of desolation is not what you mentioned above.

I am curious as to your opinion of what the "abomination of desolation" is?

Some say that this has already happened when Rome destroyed the temple and made disgrace of the Holy of Holies. I can't disagree with this at all, but there is another that will be occur before the Second Coming of our Lord, where the beast, little horn, or whatever name you choose to use from which ever prophesy, will enter the Holy of Holies once again and claim himself to be God and demand the world to worship him. This abomination of desolation will disgrace the temple more then when the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD.

Interesting study ... what is your understanding?

[OneLight]

2 Thessalonians 2:4

The spirit of the one who "opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

The spirit of the one in verse 2 speaks of the anti-chritst spirit that has been with us all along.

The 'man of sin' or 'son of perdition'.

What if: This is not a singular 'man', but rather a type of 'man'?

I am not insinuating that it is, simply asking the question.

Then how would that type of man enter the temple and be an abomination of desolation, calling himself/themselves God and demanding worship?

For me, we could compare such as: "so that he sits as God in the temple of God" v. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat"

Did they literally sit in Moses' seat? Or was it figurative for they occupied that 'position'?

Again, I am merely speculating and bouncing ideas currently.

I believe it's going to be an individual.

Me Too.

[OneLight]

...

I have re-highlighted the parts of this the rang loudest to me:

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

They go together, don't they?

[OneLight]

Then you may agree with this passage.

2 Timothy 3:1-9

Perilous Times and Perilous Men

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

Is that which is in bold how you see some churches of today, but definitely, not all. A lot of denominations believe that the power of His Spirit ended with the Apostles. These, we are told to turn away from. Do you agree?

I agree........but it goes way beyond just that.

Care to expound?

[OneLight]

Are you my brother?

In recent years, I have noticed a line being drawn, and it is being drawn hard. If you and I were to be upon opposite sides of that line, would you hand me over?

To answer your question ... NO!

No, you are not my brother or no you would not hand me over

Sorry, couldn't help it. I do know you are referring unto the latter question. At least I hope so.

To be on opposite sides, you would have to belong the the unsaved, and then God would be dealing with you, not me.

Can you answer mine? Can you also explain more about the hard line being draws? I'd really like to hear more on this.

If I may: There was this little church down near Fresno, I was asked to preside over a wedding there. Due to some rather extenuating circumstances, I agree to do this thing. Now, this event was not favoured by those of that little church and I completely understood their position/stance and the reasons therefore. I also understood the circumstances/constraints of the couple. I drove down every week for weeks, spent time speaking with the couple in person as well as via email correspondence. I even went so far as to write and choreograph the service and provide the necessary items with which to do so.

The service went well. Many thanks were given, some even commenting upon how they really saw and felt His Spirit within me [Forgive me for that, but it is necessary to make my point].

Later, one of my own peculiar beliefs came to light. I was instantly judged as being 'not a christian', as being 'unsaved' amoung other things. Now, be that what it will.

Yet I gently asked them: Was it not you who stated that you saw and felt His Spirit within me? So how can you now state that I am unsaved, that I am not a Christian?

They were never able to answer...

Hmmmmm ... you didn't answer. You're pretty good at that. Gonna see if Ted will change your name to Slick Willy!

Sorry, neither could I!

[Guest man]

Care to expound?

We're starting to get off topic here.

I have a thread in General Discussion called Scripture. It's only 4 pages long. Go and read it. Check out some of the responses.

I'd like to say more but I like the topic of this thread. I don't want to take it down another road....sorry.

[Richard_yaash]

I believe it's going to be an individual.

Understood. But well worth bouncing the idea around.