How Can You Honestly Believe In God?

[Shelby]

Shelby:

QUOTE 

I describe sin as: doing something that you know is wrong. It could be written law or personal conviction that you sense God has taught you.

How would that apply to someone like me then?

For instance, I know that Christians believe that non-marital sex is wrong, but I don't personally believe that it is. If I go by what you said, then I wouldn't be doing anything wrong in God's eyes because from my point of view, I don't think that I'm doing anything wrong.

What you said doesn't hold up then, because I'm pretty sure that he would still hold me accountable for my actions, even if I don't personally think they are wrong.

Faithless,

I believe since you know what God's word says, then you know. I didn't say believe. But you know. You will be judged by what you know. If the gospel has been presented and you choose not to, that is different. You do know therefore you just have not taken it as your personal belief.

GBU in your search for answers. I apologize if I didn't make this clear in my original posts. My stating that was pertaining to those who have never heard the plan of Salvation. (ie children in tibet)

[Guest faithless]

serotta:

If you look closely enough ALL evidence points to the fact that there is a creator.

No, there is no evidence of the presence of a superior being. The only 'evidence' that believers can fathom is appealing to the unknowns in this universe. Religion is nothing more than explaining in a half-hearted way what Man can't explain through science. It has always been like that. Think back to the days of the Egyptians, the Romans and the Greeks. What were their Gods? They were symbols for things they couldn't explain, like rain and fire. Since they couldn't explain those things, they gave them mythical properties and assigned Gods to them. The same thing is happening right now, except instead of attributing mythical properties to fire and rain, we assign it to unexplainable things like the Big Bang Theory. I can make up answers to tough questions too, it's not hard when you don't have to back it up with scientific proof.

I've talked to some theists who's rock-solid "proof" of God was that since we weren't able to explain what happened before the Big Bang, that it must surely explain the existence of a superior being. Since we live in a world dominated by cause and effect, and since the Big Bang was essentially an effect without a cause, then the cause that must have triggered it must have been God.

This is the proof as they presented it. The problem with this "proof" is that it has no scientific backing whatsoever and relies solely on us not being able to answer the questions put forth. That's not a proof, and as a polymer chemist you must surely agree. It's vague and circumstancial at best, and definitely nowhere near rock-solid. Not only that, but in this instance they have defined God as an abstract concept and not an actual being, as the bible does. Thus, in essence, this example is refuting the bible's version of God.

All you have to do is have faith in Him and you will be transformed!

I thought you just said there was proof of his existence, and that I wouldn't have to rely on blind faith. Blind faith does not equal proof.

While I can agree with you that God created all of us with certain predispositions, and some of those predisposiitons are sinful, He also created us with the ability to see them honestly for what they are.

Not only that, but he created fault within us. He made us susceptible to temptation and evil. That is his fault, how can he blame us for his mistakes?

If he hadn't created us so weak, maybe we wouldn't be sinning left and right.

Dr. Luke:

Prior to the Bible being written? Whence did those laws come? From what authority?

Christianity may not have been with Man since the dawn of time, but religion has. There were many religions with their own Gods before Christianity. Most societies, to the best of my knowledge, have based their laws on the morals dictated by whichever religion the majority of the citizens believe in. The only examples that I can think of where that is not true, are Stalinist Communism and perhaps Mussolini's fascism in Italy, and even then you can make a convincing case that both of those were based around a source of morality other than the state.

Would it be harmful for a citizen to marry a sheep? Couldn't there be ceratin ramifications for public health involved in that decision?

I personally find marriage to be an outdated practice, and I wouldn't mind if it were abolished altogether.

However to answer your question, it is not uncommon in other societies for individuals to marry animals (India is a prime example) and there haven't been any major drawbacks. The full-fledged viral epidemics some had predicted never happened.

You see injustice and want to blame God. You seek justice from men. Who if left to their own devices are totally depraved.

Obviously, if God is the creator and he has created us in such a bad manner, then how is he not to blame? If you own a pharmaceutical company, and one of your products turns out to cause more harm than good when ingested, who's fault is it? Yours, because you created a defective product.

So God, in all of his power and wisdom, created a weak, sinful creature that can't even resist temptation. I would call that a defective product, wouldn't you? Especially when you realize that we were meant for so much more. We are a failed product, and God is to blame for that.

Personally I don't believe in God, so I don't blame him. But for those who do, how can you claim that he loves you when he's the reason that you're sinning?

Saved by Grace:

Firstly, the work of the cross is complete;

What do you mean by that? I don't quite understand.

You just said that we were an unfinished product, now you're saying that we are complete?

I don't understand.

papasangel:

There are many flaws in your reasoning.

You make two claims for your belief in God, the first one being the bible (when you say "the pat answer would be the bible tells us") and history ("So I refer you to history"). The bible solution can immediately be discarded because that would be like using a word to define itself. You can't use something to prove itself. That would be like me asking "Why do you believe in God as defined by the bible?" and you answering "Because the bible defines God as such and such." It's circular reasoning. Thus we can strike that one out right away. Your second line of reasoning is more acceptable, history, except that the history you describe is the one described in the bible. Look at your passage:

Moses talked to God through a burning bush. Angels told Mary she would bear the Messiah, God's Son. Daniel prayed to God when thrown in the Lions den and God stayed the lions from harming him. Christ was real. He hung on a cross to die for our sins.

Those are all biblical stories. In essence, I am casting doubt into the bible, and you are using the bible's stories to try to prove me otherwise. Don't you see the problem with that kind of logic?

rockswillcryout:

What evidence can you give me that believing in a higher being like God is not a choice when everything else in life points to the contrary?

What do you mean by "everything else in life points to the contrary"? I just showed that not everything in life points to the contrary, how can you resume this point without showing me how my logic is wrong?

How can you possibly compare atheticism with spirituality?

Spirituality is a function of the mind, is it not? And I just showed you with my intelligence anecdote that we don't choose which mind we get when we are born. So it follows suite that we actually don't choose our inner core beliefs, but rather that they are chosen for us, much like we don't get to choose how intelligent we are.

[VRSpock]

For instance, I got really lucky this morning. I won't go into the specifics of the story, but basically I met the right person at the right place and at the right time, and as a result I won't fail one of my classes this semester. Now, was this a sign from God? NO! It was just a lucky coincidence. If I was on a quest to find God though, I would be mistaking this for undeniable proof of his existence.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as coincidence. Everything happens for a reason. Chaos is not random.

[VRSpock]

The only thing I am seeking is trying to find out why so many people base their entire lives on what I believe is one great lie. I'm not searching for God, I'm 99.999% he doesn't exist. No one can persuade me otherwise. I'm just trying to understand how others can follow an ideology that is built on so little fact and so much blind faith.

Yep, that was me about 8 years ago.

[Guest LCPGUY]

Howdy Faithless!

I am curious about something. Have you read the prophecies in the Old Testament which were fulfilled 100's and 1,000's of years later, exactly as described. If there is no God, how would this be possible? I am curious.

May the Lord touch your heart and mind with His holy truth,

In His Love,

John

[VRSpock]

How can I believe in God?

Because, one day about 8 years ago I was at my wits end and dared to challenge God asking Him to reveal Himself to me if He really existed......and He did! Without realizing it, I opened myself up to Him and through the Holy Spirit, He caused me to go from 99.999% sure He didn't exist to 100% sure that He did in an instant.

It's taken me those 8 years to develop true faith in His word though. Reading, understanding and believing the Bible from cover to cover takes a huge leap of faith even if you are 100% certain of God's existence.

Logically, there is no explanation for God's existence. No more than there is a logical explanation for quantum particles, parallel universes and warped space/time. A mathmatician cannot fully graph an equation who's variables involve the square root of a negative number (i), yet we know those imaginary variables exist because we see their effects on the part of the graph that we can see. The same is true of God.

[senerhu]

faithless,

Your title states " How Can You Honestly Believe In God?"

Perhaps if I give you one of the reasons why I believe in God, it might allow food for thought for you...

This quote was actually part of a reply I gave to another, but I believe it fits in very well here so I copied it for you:

" During the Last Supper, Jesus told Peter, in front of the other disciples (written in Mathew 26:34, Luke 22:34, and John 13:38), "that before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times". The fulfillment of this prophecy was witnessed by two disciples and was recorded in John 18:15-17. I personally believe that this prophecy is one of the most powerful in the Bible because it was fulfilled less than twenty four hours after it was prophesized and is historically accurate due to it being witnessed and recorded.

Now my question is, with all due respect, from what scientific criteria can we, as scientist, draw on to even begin to explain or understand how this prophecy was accomplished? I believe you know as well as I, that we can't."

The fulfillment of prophecies and the performance of miracles by Jesus and others to follow, were done to convince non-believers of and for the presence and power of God. The prophecy that I spoke of above is one of the easiest to verify. How can anyone explain how it happened without incorporating some power other than what we know? We can't.

I believe to deny that this happened or that the miracles happened or that the prophecies of Daniel, Isaiah, Micah and others don't exist simply because they don't fit in with your interpretation of the world, simply means that you have closed you mind to realities of the world that do exist. You are too intelligent of an individual to allow that to happen. I would hate to think that somebody as inquisitive as you would ignore truths simply because they don't fit into your current conclusions is a loss to your efforts to find the truth...IMHO...

[BoldlyProclaimingChrist]

I wish I would have joined this thread earlier because I've got a lot to say But you guys are awesome!!!!!!!! You guys have said it all!!! Praise Jesus - keep it going

[Ovedya]

Faithless,

What are you studying there at Rutgers?

[Guest LCPGUY]

I wish I would have joined this thread earlier because I've got a lot to say But you guys are awesome!!!!!!!! You guys have said it all!!! Praise Jesus - keep it going

I imagine we will keep it going as long as faithless is interested. But that's no reason to stand back and just watch. Come on Boldly, join the discussion!

Your Bro,

John