chimoku Posted March 9, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 270 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/31/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 (edited) - Brief DEFINITION of WATERBOARDING Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward (the Trendelenburg position), and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent. In contrast to merely submerging the head face-forward, waterboarding almost immediately elicits the gag reflex. Although waterboarding does not always cause lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death. The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure. Waterboarding was used for interrogation at least as early as the Spanish Inquisition to obtain information, coerce confessions, punish, and intimidate. It is considered to be torture by a wide range of authorities, including legal experts, politicians, war veterans, intelligence officials, military judges, and human rights organizations -wikipedia - Edited March 9, 2008 by chimoku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat8585 Posted March 9, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Sorry. I haven't agreed with Bush on much this term, but I'm with him on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimoku Posted March 9, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 270 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/31/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 - Lady C , with all due respect, may i respond . . . even the top brass has differences of opinions. many of the top brass say it is NOT torture. Perhaps, however, the Top General who takes the final repsonsibility on these decisions, says it is excessive and does not recommend it. He is speaking for the Military in official capacity. reporters subject themselves to waterboarding to boost ratings on their newscasts. so it can't be all that torturous. It not proven whether the exeprience of water boarding these reporters receive is the exact same kind of treament that the prisoners receive. There is no double blind study on this. So the data on resulting from these reporters' analysis is questionable. i also said before, just go sit down and have a chat with a marine and ask them what they had to endure in iraq, or for that matter, in BOOT CAMP. they'll be happy to tell ya they endure a whole lot more discomfort than waterboarding as part of their routine training. Boot camp and military training is infact designed to re program and desensitize people to killing. The context in which this training occurs is entirely different from the hostile,life-threatening, brutality of waterboarding, where the prisoners have no options to leave and are helpless. Its comapring oranges and apples as far as the argument is concerned. detainees are treated oh so... best medical care, best dental care, free korans for their reading pleasure, yada yada yada. They are being treated as human beings - which they should be, because they too were counted when Jesus died on the Cross and shed His precious blood. The fact that the US is treating the bulk of those prisoners correctly, does NOT justify torture. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Dannyboy Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 156 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,454 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1969 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well, you have convinced me. I have done something that is unique and unprecedented on Worthy Boards, I have changed my mind. Waterboarding is undoubtedly a useful technique in prisoner interrogation and should be resumed. Nebula has said, " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2008 The article quoted the opinions of Gen. Petraeus, who mentioned two objections: The military Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 my responses in red. - Lady C , with all due respect, may i respond . . . even the top brass has differences of opinions. many of the top brass say it is NOT torture. Perhaps, however, the Top General who takes the final repsonsibility on these decisions, says it is excessive and does not recommend it. He is speaking for the Military in official capacity. with all due respect, the TOP of the heap is the commander in chief... and he disagrees with you, and with the good general. reporters subject themselves to waterboarding to boost ratings on their newscasts. so it can't be all that torturous. It not proven whether the exeprience of water boarding these reporters receive is the exact same kind of treament that the prisoners receive. There is no double blind study on this. So the data on resulting from these reporters' analysis is questionable. i have absolutely no doubt it IS the same treatment, and have never seen it questioned by anyone but you. however, it's not the full treatment. the average reporter only subjects himself to the first four stages, at which point most people have probably already started squawking, unless they've been trained to withstand it. i also said before, just go sit down and have a chat with a marine and ask them what they had to endure in iraq, or for that matter, in BOOT CAMP. they'll be happy to tell ya they endure a whole lot more discomfort than waterboarding as part of their routine training. Boot camp and military training is infact designed to re program and desensitize people to killing. The context in which this training occurs is entirely different from the hostile,life-threatening, brutality of waterboarding, where the prisoners have no options to leave and are helpless. Its comapring oranges and apples as far as the argument is concerned. right.... and you say that because you've been to parris island and withstood three months of their "reprogramming". you and i are gonna butt heads over this if you want to white-wash what they go through as being a tea party with a little training thrown in, and yes i know, i just reworded your comments. boot camp is designed to make or break a person. while they are not in a life-threatening situation at any time, the recruits certainly PERCEIVE it to be life threatening when they go into the gas chamber and come out vomitting, and with mucous stringing from their sinus cavities to the ground. they certainly PERCEIVE it to be life threatening when they're doing their underwater drills with their lungs feeling like they are about to explode. and that's only the bits and pieces that most marines are willing to actually talk about. lemme tell ya, my daughter is the ultimate drama queen, who just loves to complain about anything that brings her discomfort... and yet she won't even discuss the vast majority of what they are required to endure. she tries to make me believe that her tour of duty in iraq was one big slumber party. now given that the recruits and marines PERCEIVE their circumstances to be life threatening, and believe me, their drill instructors are quite hostile to them, and given that during the boot camp phase they're stripped of any identity, any personal effects, and are not even allowed to refer to themselves as people (they are required to refer to themselves at all times as "this recruit", i'd say that the detainees have it far easier. they most certainly don't have it any rougher. put one of those detainees through the crucible and people like you would be SCREAMING about the cruel and unusual torture. oh yeah... and you make it sound as though they've been trained to be nothing more than killing machines. hello, they've been trained to protect innocent people with deadly force when necessary. i know lots of active duty marines, as well as a lot of active duty air force people... and i come from a military family... i've got immediate family members who have served in nearly every branch of the armed forces, and one of my best friends is retired from the other branch. if anything, those whom i know developed much more sensitivity towards human life during their service to our country than they did before. detainees are treated oh so... best medical care, best dental care, free korans for their reading pleasure, yada yada yada. They are being treated as human beings - which they should be, because they too were counted when Jesus died on the Cross and shed His precious blood. The fact that the US is treating the bulk of those prisoners correctly, does NOT justify torture. when you enter the pearly gates, i do hope you'll sit down and ask Jesus (who is ONE with God, who has never overturned God's law, and who has never contradicted God's nature) how God expected prisoners of war to be treated. of course, you don't have to wait that long. it's recorded in the OT. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healingoil Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 164 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2008 A couple of points 1. Using the New York Times' opinion in this thread is like using an opinion piece from Al-Jezeera to defend the motives of terrorists. It is an aganda-driven, anti-Bush liberal rag. Period. 2. Just because wikipedia is of the opinion that waterboarding is torture does not make it so. The article quoted the opinions of Gen. Petraeus, who mentioned two objections: The military Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faith pleases God Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 653 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/18/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/26/1977 Share Posted March 10, 2008 - Brief DEFINITION of WATERBOARDING Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward (the Trendelenburg position), and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent. In contrast to merely submerging the head face-forward, waterboarding almost immediately elicits the gag reflex. Although waterboarding does not always cause lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death. The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure. Waterboarding was used for interrogation at least as early as the Spanish Inquisition to obtain information, coerce confessions, punish, and intimidate. It is considered to be torture by a wide range of authorities, including legal experts, politicians, war veterans, intelligence officials, military judges, and human rights organizations -wikipedia - The best part of posting this definition is that it will go heavily ignored for personal definitions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 the best part about that definition is that it comes from wikipedia, where anyone can edit the definition. THAT is why it will go heavily ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faith pleases God Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 653 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/18/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/26/1977 Share Posted March 10, 2008 the best part about that definition is that it comes from wikipedia, where anyone can edit the definition. THAT is why it will go heavily ignored. Your who I was thinking of. Her's another one. http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Water%20Boarding Since none of us actually use the dictionary of 'Lady C' maybe you could give us another reference? No pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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