ID goes to sleep

[mikeinsarasota]

I've read the Wikipedia article before.

Where does it show how every single part came together simultaneously?

The fossil record suggests that eyes appeared during the lower Cambrian period (about 540 million years ago). This period saw a burst of apparently rapid evolution, dubbed the "Cambrian explosion". One of the many hypotheses for "causes" of this diversification (backed up by scant evidence) holds that the evolution of eyes initiated an arms race that caused a rapid spate of evolution.[citation needed]

Sudden appearance of the eye. Sudden appearance of a mechanism with more than 20 different parts that all must come together simulateously fully formed, otherwise each part is completely useless.

Since the fossil record, particularly of the Early Cambrian, is so poor, it is difficult to constrain the rate of eye evolution. Simple modelling, invoking nothing other than small mutations exposed to natural selection, demonstrates that a primitive optical sense organ could evolve into a complex human-like eye within under a million years.[12] This surprised the non-scientist David Berlinski, who loudly questioned the basis of the calculations.[13] Berlinski's misgivings were soon shown to have no scientific basis.[14][15]

Simple mutations don't even begin to cover it. This is not an explanation. There is a design - an end product in mind.

[edit] Stages of eye evolution

[edit] Early eyes

The stigma (2) of the euglena hides a light-sensitive spot.The basic light-processing unit of the eye is the photoreceptor, a specialized cell consisting of two molecules in a membrane: the opsin, a light-sensitive protein, surrounding the chromophore, a pigment that distinguishes colors. When a photon is absorbed by the chromophore, a chemical reaction causes the photon's energy to be transduced into electrical energy and relayed to the nervous system. These photoreceptor cells form part of the retina, a thin layer of cells that relays visual information,[16] as well as the light and daylength information needed by the circadian rhythm system, to the brain.

The earliest predecessors of the eye were photoreceptor proteins that sense light, found even in unicellular organisms, called "eyespots". Eyespots can only sense ambient brightness: they can distinguish light from dark, sufficient for photoperiodism and daily synchronization of circadian rhythms. They are insufficient for vision, as they can not distinguish shapes or determine the direction light is coming from. Eyespots are found in nearly all major animal groups, and are common among unicellular organisms, including euglena. The euglena's eyespot, called a stigma, is located at its anterior end. It is a small splotch of red pigment which shades a collection of light sensitive crystals. Together with the leading flagellum, the eyespot acts as a sort of directional eye, allowing the organism to move in response to light, often toward the light to assist in photosynthesis,[17][18] and to predict day and night, the primary function of circadian rhythms.

It is likely that a key reason eyes specialize in detecting a specific, narrow range of wavelengths on the electromagnetic spectrum

[Ateam]

Of course, as a Christian, I believe God created the universe and gave us his Son. He did these magnificent things through direct intervention. But the Lord does not normally intervene in this way. Just look at the history of human knowledge. Humans have a habit of assuming things are acts of God until we realize there is a simpler, more down-to-Earth explanation. There was a time when people thought lightning bolts were evidence of ID--that they were being hurled by a god's hand. Then we learned about electricity and meteorology and we scrapped that explanation. ID is a kind of default assumption, not a positive hypothesis or theory. And as a default assumption, it exists only until something better comes along.

This is incredible insight!

[artsylady]

The fossil record suggests that eyes appeared during the lower Cambrian period (about 540 million years ago). This period saw a burst of apparently rapid evolution, dubbed the "Cambrian explosion".

How do many parts come together, otherwise all completely useless, with no direction or final design in mind for the end result?

[mikeinsarasota]

The fossil record suggests that eyes appeared during the lower Cambrian period (about 540 million years ago). This period saw a burst of apparently rapid evolution, dubbed the "Cambrian explosion".

How do many parts come together, otherwise all completely useless, with no direction or final design in mind for the end result?

I think the word in the entry you're having trouble with is, "appeared." The term is used very loosely and is not meant to suggest organisms all of a sudden were born with fully developed eyeballs as you now know them. It was a very long and gradual process that lead to the human eye, which isn't even the best one around in general.

[artsylady]

I think the word in the entry you're having trouble with is, "appeared." The term is used very loosely and is not meant to suggest organisms all of a sudden were born with fully developed eyeballs as you now know them. It was a very long and gradual process that lead to the human eye, which isn't even the best one around in general.

Yes, that's right. It says in this article the early eye appeared.

You say it was a very long and gradual process.

Whether fast or slow, and there's no proof to either, the question that ID puts forth that evolution can't answer is "How do many parts come together, otherwise all completely useless, with no direction or final design in mind for the end result?"

The eye is just one examples of complexity and design.

[artsylady]

I really didn't want to go over the whole article, due to lack of time, but I will try to make the time to do so.

He suggested a gradation from "an optic nerve merely coated with pigment, and without any other mechanism" to "a moderately high stage of perfection", giving examples of extant intermediate grades of evolution.

Also from Wikipedia "The optic nerve, also called cranial nerve II, is the nerve that transmits visual information from the retina to the brain."

What use would a nerve that transmits visual information be without the other many components?

Darwin's suggestions were soon proven to be correct, and current research is investigating the genetic mechanisms responsible for eye development and evolution.

It doesn't say HOW they were proven to be correct. And they obviously don't know how because they're still investigating it.

One origin or many?

It is a matter of debate whether the "eye" evolved once, or independently in many clades. The genetic machinery employed in eye development is common to all eyed organisms. This may mean that the genes coded for "eyes" in the first place. Alternatively, they may originally have fulfilled a different purpose, and later been co-opted for use in optical machinery.

More debate even among evolutionists obviously. And the genes coded for fully functioning eyes in the first place? I'll agree with that wholeheartedly.

All light-sensitive organs rely on photoreceptor systems employing a family of proteins called opsins, which, by structural and sequence homology can be shown to be of common origin.

Or common designer.

Indeed, the seven sub-families of opsins existed in the common animal ancestor. Recent genetic discoveries have provided valuable evidence for the common ancestry of the eye, as the PAX6 gene has been recognized as a universal "master control" gene for production of eyes in species ranging from mice to humans to fruit flies.[9][10][11]

Fits with ID and a designer.

[edit] Rate of evolution

The fossil record suggests that eyes appeared during the lower Cambrian period (about 540 million years ago). This period saw a burst of apparently rapid evolution, dubbed the "Cambrian explosion". One of the many hypotheses for "causes" of this diversification (backed up by scant evidence) holds that the evolution of eyes initiated an arms race that caused a rapid spate of evolution.[citation needed]

An arms race?

Said the trilobite, "Look the molusk can see. We need to see as well. Hurry, develop the eyes faster"

Since the fossil record, particularly of the Early Cambrian, is so poor, it is difficult to constrain the rate of eye evolution.

Sounds like a convenient, I mean reasonable excuse.

Simple modelling, invoking nothing other than small mutations exposed to natural selection, demonstrates that a primitive optical sense organ could evolve into a complex human-like eye within under a million years.[12]

See, it's just simple modelling.

This surprised the non-scientist David Berlinski, who loudly questioned the basis of the calculations.[13] Berlinski's misgivings were soon shown to have no scientific basis.[14][15]

If I have time, I'll look into this guy.

[artsylady]

The stigma (2) of the euglena hides a light-sensitive spot.The basic light-processing unit of the eye is the photoreceptor, a specialized cell consisting of two molecules in a membrane: the opsin, a light-sensitive protein, surrounding the chromophore, a pigment that distinguishes colors. When a photon is absorbed by the chromophore, a chemical reaction causes the photon's energy to be transduced into electrical energy and relayed to the nervous system. These photoreceptor cells form part of the retina, a thin layer of cells that relays visual information,[16] as well as the light and daylength information needed by the circadian rhythm system, to the brain.

So you have the stigma, a special cell consisting of two molecules in a membrane, the opsin surrounding the chromophore, and a energy transduced to energy relayed to the nervous system. Also the retina. Sounds like a well thought out design.

The earliest predecessors of the eye were photoreceptor proteins that sense light, found even in unicellular organisms, called "eyespots". Eyespots can only sense ambient brightness: they can distinguish light from dark, sufficient for photoperiodism and daily synchronization of circadian rhythms. They are insufficient for vision, as they can not distinguish shapes or determine the direction light is coming from. Eyespots are found in nearly all major animal groups, and are common among unicellular organisms, including euglena. The euglena's eyespot, called a stigma, is located at its anterior end. It is a small splotch of red pigment which shades a collection of light sensitive crystals. Together with the leading flagellum, the eyespot acts as a sort of directional eye, allowing the organism to move in response to light, often toward the light to assist in photosynthesis,[17][18] and to predict day and night, the primary function of circadian rhythms.

It is likely that a key reason eyes specialize in detecting a specific, narrow range of wavelengths on the electromagnetic spectrum

[mikeinsarasota]

You still didn't read the article fully did you? Or if you did, you didn't read it critically and grasp the implications.

[artsylady]

Yes, I did.

I'm not sure what you're implying. You might as well just say so.

Okay, I read your article you can read mine now?

http://www.discovery.org/a/2611

[mikeinsarasota]

Yes, I did.

I'm not sure what you're implying. You might as well just say so.

I'm trying to say that you are still misguided about the evolution of the eye.

Okay, I read your article you can read mine now?

http://www.discovery.org/a/2611

Sorry but the discovery institute is hardly a bastion of intellectual honesty. I try to stick to credible resources, preferably peer reviewed journals.