I need to find a relationship w/God!

[Guest green_ink]

Perhaps someone out there can give me some advice!

Here's where I'm at: I was raised in a mainstream Protestant church, feeling no great enthusiasm or attachment for either the Church or God (my family pretty much did church because that's what nice people do). After I was confirmed, I happily quit attending. Fast-forward 20-25 years to the recent past, when I found myself married with kids, and attending church pretty much because that's what nice people do (and mostly resenting the time spent there). Never thought alot (if at all) about what I believed, and coming from a scientific educational background, had absorbed vague ideas that Christianity and science weren't, perhaps, all that compatible to religion. Had subconsciously adopted the "God as devine clockmaker" world view of God as creator sitting back in heaven just watching what would happen to the world he started, with little or no involvement in the day-to-day workings of creation (except for sending Jesus, and sporadic miracles, many of which I doubted).

Then one day in church (about 18 mos. ago), an uncanny confluence of events brought me to a point of questioning whether I even believed in God at all! I was very distressed (walked out of the middle of the service in tears!), and started into a period of searching. I found I really didn't WANT to not believe in God!! Read the NT, started reading the rest of the Bible, read alot of apologetics, had a few conversations with the pastor. Decided I do, after all, believe in God, Jesus was his son, bodily resurrected, died for our sins, etc., etc. Am still working to get myself completely out of that "clockmaker God" way of thinking (old habits die hard!) I've become a leader in the church, active in several small groups, well on my way to the tithe, attending church and events because I want to, etc., and to the eyes of others, probably appear to be pretty together, know what's going on, got a great relationship with God., etc.

Here's the problem. I don't feel like I have any sort of personal relationship with God. I feel like I have quite alot of intelluctual knowledge, but no personal knowledge. I don't expect to be filled with emotional religious feelings (really not my style!!), and my pastor has emphasized that faith and belief are not are not about "feelings". But so many things I've read or listened to talk of feelings or sensations of God's presence, his loving kindness, his support, etc. I never have felt any of those things. I know them with my brain, but I don't know them with my heart. And I have read that people have periods of spiritual dryness, or times when God seems far away or not there at all, but I've never experienced that sort of presence in the first place!

Other than the pastor and my husband (who have not been able to come up with anything helpful for me yet), there isn't anyone at church I'm comfortable talking about this topic with. Any of you all have anything you can offer? Exercises that my be helpful? Ideas that might point toward something I'm missing? I feel like a cheater, only believing with my mouth. The only thing that keeps me from doubting the validity of my entire recent conversion is the obvious fruit that can be seen.

Please Help!

[rockswillcryout]

Welcome to Worthy green_ink! We are glad you're here.

While I would not consider myself an expert on this topic, I have been and sometimes still can be at the same place you are. I'm a very intellectual person when it comes to knowing about Christianity (I even minored in Religion/Philosophy in college because I'm my desire to know "the facts" about Christianity) so I can relate to you there.

There are two ways that work for me in cultivating my relationship with God:

1.) Other people. You said you don't feel comfortable talking to many people about your confusion in this area...so that may need to become a fear you'll have to overcome. My pastor's wife is a very godly woman and about 3-4 years ago I asked her to disciple me. For a year and a half, we met once a week and did a bible study together. It was one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had. Fellowship with other Christians is so important to our walk with God, but fellowship isn't just hanging out and having coffee after Sunday School. It's about praying together, sharing fears and hopes together. That is how I have felt the presence of God and developed a relationship with Him - through the people He created. I also had a very close knit group of friends in college that were not only friend, but accountability partners with me. Through them, I could get a glimpse of how creative and wonderful God is.

2.) Listening to God. I've found that in my quest to know as much as I can, I spent a lot of time asking questions and talking to God. While those are good things, I forgot to sit quite and listen. Do you have an every day devotional/prayer time? If not, try to establish one. And in that time, fellowship with God by talking with him and listening to him.

Bottom line is, devloping a relationship with God isn't that different than developing a relationship with your husband, your pastor or your next door neighbor. The same "rules" apply. Take time to spend with Him, talk and listen.

May Philippians 3: 8-10 encourage you today:

"Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the priceless gain of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I may have Christ and become one with him. I no longer count on my own goodness or my ability to obey God's law, but I trust Christ to save me. For God's way of making us right with himself depends on faith. As a result, I can really know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. "

God bless you, my sister in Christ. Come hang out with us in the Ladies Lounge sometime. We'd be glad to have you!

[serotta]

One reason that we don't feel God's presence is because we have strayed from the purpose for which God created us. God knows each one of us better than we know ourselves. Ask him to tell you who you are. I would also suggest getting the book "A Purpose Driven Life" and following Dr. Luke's thread here. Or you could discuss it with your husband.

[Guest green_ink]

Thanks for the advice, rocks and serotta. I've tried alot of this stuff already, however. Actually, it has been my newfound sense of Christian community that was a deciding factor in recognizing God at work in the world - through his people. I see these concrete things yet still don't have a sense of knowing God or Jesus. I actually just completed reading purpose driven life, and discuss interesting bits with my husband as they turn up. I can't seem to get him to understand the strong sense I have that something is missing. His response is more of - "don't worry about it Hon, just keep on keeping on and don't fret." And mostly I don't fret - as long as I don't really think about it! My pastor's response tends to be along the same lines, and I don't think he really understands either.

I do know that my personal makeup is probably a large contributing factor in this issue. I'm not a passionate person. I care about people and things, I'm just not passionate about it. I went through a little short course at church that we call Network - used to identify ones passions, spiritual gifts, and style in order to identify ministry areas. I couldn't come up with any passions! The best I could manage was that I really like things to be orderly and clear and I like to understand how thing/processes/ideas/etc. work. The others in that particular group were saying things like - they are passionate about youth, or people facing divorce, or the terminally ill, and similar. I really felt the oddball!

I also know my prayer life isn't what it could be. I have found it very uncomfortable learning to pray. I often feel silly when I do it, mostly since I don't have that sense of relationship. And when I try to "listen", about all I generally "hear" is my own stray thougts rattling around.

Arghh!

[serotta]

green ink said:

I'm not a passionate person. I care about people and things, I'm just not passionate about it. I went through a little short course at church that we call Network - used to identify ones passions, spiritual gifts, and style in order to identify ministry areas. I couldn't come up with any passions! The best I could manage was that I really like things to be orderly and clear and I like to understand how thing/processes/ideas/etc. work. The others in that particular group were saying things like - they are passionate about youth, or people facing divorce, or the terminally ill, and similar. I really felt the oddball!

While God made all of us unique, I think there is something that He wants each of us to be passionate about. It may help to find a christian counselor to talk to for awhile. Think of it as finding a spiritual mentor. God wants you to be joyful! The more we focus on Him, tune other distractions out, and hear what He really wants us to be doing, the more enthusiastic, joyful, and passionate we become.

[other one]

I also know my prayer life isn't what it could be.  I have found it very uncomfortable learning to pray.  I often feel silly when I do it, mostly since I don't have that sense of relationship.  And when I try to "listen", about all I generally "hear" is my own stray thougts rattling around.

Arghh!

green ink, I can only share what I personally went through to get out of where you are.

We camp a lot and fish more than camp. My wife is not a morning person and I am. Actually I work from 3 am to noon so when we are on vacation I tend to get up a lot earlier than she does. Likewise she is up later than I.

This give us each time to ourselves both during normal work days and vacation.

With that said several years ago I was pretty much where you are now, except I was not nearly as involved in church. During one two week vacation I decided that I wanted to know Jesus more, so I got up every morning for two weeks, took my bible and the boat and fished mornings by myself without using much bait.

I would go out and stop the boat in a pretty place somewhere on the lake and just talk to Jesus as though he was sitting in the boat with me. When I could not think of anything to say, I'd just open my bible randomly and just start reading. Every so often I'd stop and talk some more, asking Him to be more of a part of my life. When I ran out of things to say I'd read again.

We talked about me, my life, my wife and kids work fishing...... After a while you just seem to know that he is there and causing the conversation to move to places that he wants it to go. I can't put it into words, but you just begin to know that He is there listening and moving your thoughts where he wants them to go.

The longer I have done that the closer He seems to be. These days some people think I am a little weird at times for I quite often use the term we when I am refering to myself and being somewhere. I talk to Him when I work on the printers I service, most who don't know me think I'm talking to myself, or worse .

I just love to take the boat out at sunrise and ask Him to pick where I should read out of my bible..... open it up and just start reading sometimes for 10 minutes and sometimes for hours, but I almost always get answers to the questions I have. I don't mean that as ask a question and pick a verse for an answer, It is more like asking, "you know I have this question or problem, show me where the word covers this kind of topic.

Relationship building is so different for each person that I don't think anyone will have a cut and dry answer for you in how you should/could develop it with Him.

Rockswillcryout pretty much covered it with spending time with Him as you would anyone else.

I understand your feelings about praying and being uncomfortable, but after a while and telling Him that you care about the relationship it becomes not only easy but totally adictive. I also find it much easier to shun sinful things for now I feel He is with me most all the time, and I would not like to embarass Him in front of all the heavenly host.

Don't be surprised as things progress the He puts you in places to do things and help people, and send people (or others) to help you when the need arises.

That is the way I personally handle our relationship, it may work for others or maybe not for we are all different. Just remember that he knows you better than you know yourself, he loves you so much He came down here and died so you won't have to, so trust Him. Some people treat Him like some far away special thing to fear and pay reverence to. While we do or should pay reverence, he is or can be a very good friend, it just depends on how much time you spend with him and your aproach.

By the way I personally started on the fishing trip for I was embarassed to be caught praying...... I still don't like praying in public but if someone stumbles onto one of our verbal talks I just invite them to join.

The ultimate goal for me, is to become the kind of person that He would be as comfortable in my body as I am. I have a ways to go, but together we are getting there.

I'm rambling so I should quit here.

Sam

[Hvnly1Rose]

Green Ink,

Although I cannot say that I have the same intelect as you I can say that in Gods economy He uses all types of people to reach His children.

Answer me a few questions, What is it about the scientific field that interests you? Why did you chose that particular field? Did you have a strong desire to find out things about the world we live in or was it because you were good at scientific things? If you had a desire to go into this field then maybe the passion God has in store for you is in that field...maybe He wants to show you Himself through that field. Do you get excited about what you do? If you do then think serously about why you do. Ask God to send you a mentor that will lead you down the road He wants you to take. Don't worry about not feeling comfortable with prayer now, you will eventually be comfortable with it.

God shows Himself through others and all you need is for God to send that someone to help give you an understanding of Him through eyes that see like yours do. Be open to His signs and don't close any doors without really giving careful consideration as to wheather or not it is from Him. You will have that personal relationship with Him, be patient, He does things in His own time.

Blessings to you and be of good cheer,

Rose

[RGR]

Green_ink,

Welcome to the Worthy Boards; you've came to the right place to get advice. If you've invited Jesus into your life, you are His child beyond the shadow of a doubt.

It sounds as if you are at a place I was at close to 3 years ago. I had spent quite a few years backslidden and had just came back to the Lord. I was too busy with my feelings instead of my faith. Many times I didn't "feel" saved. I would get so depressed thinking I had "lost" my salvation. This is where faith comes in. I know it is hard to override the feelings, but confess, out loud if need be, that you have met the requirements for salvation and are a child of the living God. Ask God to increase your faith in Him and just talk to Him as you would a friend-I promise He'll listen. I don't know how much help I can be, but feel free to PM me anytime and I'll try to help!

[Guest Christs Daughter]

Please read what I have to say..i think it will help..i've been there!!

I have pretty much been through exactly the same as you...i merely went to church because it was "acceptable in society".. and my parents sent me to christian schools because it made them good parents, at least thats what they saw it as. When i was 13 a good friend got me to come along to church and youth groups... i remained to go because it was something to do, and then one day i realised that i had no idea what i truly believed.....now 2 years later, i have an AWESOME relationship with my Holy father...and like all relationships it takes time..you have to look at it as if it is a relationship with a friend, because thats what He is..our best friend!!! in a normal relationship it takes COMMUNICATION, and its the same with God, we need to talk to Him , pray to Him..i know it feels ceremonial, and religious..but its not!! What we have with God is NOT a religion..its a RELATIONSHIP!! to fully get into God and fell Him, we have to do just that..Get into His word!! if you ask God to make you feel His presence, or to work miracles in you life, HE WILL!! all you have to do is ask... you dont need to be excited to get into God, you need to get into God to get the excitement... Life can be awesome, and you can have a great relationship, you just need to work on it, attend services, listen to friends, hang out with other christians to see what God is doing in their lives, read His word..but most of all hang out with God... spend time with Him..when your alone in your room, or lying in bed, or goin for a walk..talk to Him, have a convo..tell Him about your day..i know it seems weird because He knows everything..but I promise you, He loves the company, being God can get pretty lonely, you have 6 billion people who you love..and half of them reject you!! imagine that!! i wouldnt be able to do that, and thats why He is sooo great..so reall spend time with Him and you will have a great relationship :hug: !!! trust me..im only 17 and God has already done so much in my life.. and i know there is heaps more to come... and I know in my heart He has heaps planned for you... I pray this will help you, God put it on my heart to speak to you, and i know He knows best..and i think you should really read Proverbs 3:5 and 6 read it over and over, cause there is always something new to find about God!! may God bless you forever and into eternity!!

[Guest green_ink]

I must tell you, one of the most amazing things I've discovered since really becoming a Christian is Christian community! All the people I've finally gotten to know at church have been just lovely people. And you guys here, too! It takes a bit of time to respond to things on a forum like this, and I appreciate the thoughtful responses and advice that have been posted. Thank you all! Actually, the kind acts of people was one of the tipping factors in convincing me that God is really present and active throughout his creation.

Anyway, to respond to some of you. Other One, I love your fishing story. Being out in some beautiful spot alone have been the times when I've felt closest to God (but still soooooo far away...) in enjoying his creation, and I can see where something similar may be helpful. I just wish I had more time for such things! I have two kids (11& 13) and I work nearly full-time (with a substantial commute). I just turned forty last month, and I'm feeling so darn OLD (yeah, yeah, I know that 40 isn't all that old in this day and age, but it surely is a substantial BD to get past!!)

As far as my scienfic bent (I'm an environmental geologist), Hvnly1rose, I think it results from both aptitude and style. I was always good in math and science. I'm also detail oriented (good for those data gathering and analysis tasks), and not as good at relating with people as I could be. I'm shy, and in most social situations I'm quite content to observe and listen while others do most of the talking. That works well with "doing" science. Actually, a problem I have in my career is that as I advance, I am expected to do more in finding new projects for the company, which involves more interaction with clients than just talking to them about the findings of my work. Uck. I wouldn't say I'm passionate about my work, but I do enjoy it. And I've found a use for my inclinations on the church vestry as a foil to those with grand ideas who have trouble impementing them. Hmmm.

Ronald - I was caught up in the "feelings" thing when I first started into my conversion 18 months ago. Thought I should be having some sort of emotional religious experiences to demonstrate I really did believe. I got over that talking with my pastor. Of course as he tells me faith is not about emtional feelings, I look at him leading worship and see the joy shining from him and think I'm surely missing something. Where did he find that obvious joy??

CHrists daughter, you sound wise beyond your years. That verse from proverbs is quite apt. "rely not on your own understanding" hmmm - I know that is something I have a problem with. I want to understand how everything works. I've been working on letting that go, but it is so hard! I tend to want to keep everything to myself (even from my husband at times) and rely on me only to solve whatever problems may have come my way.

Darnit - I had hoped one of you could help me find the silver bullet that would kill this problem. Sounds like I just need to keep on keeping on in the same paths I've been taking. It's just so darn frustrating to hear people who have had more or less instantaneous conversions and immediately found great joy in the Lord and a sense of his presence in his life. THings that I've read talk about the "dryness" coming later, not at the beginning of the process!

I'd best get to work now!