What About Belief?

[ALTACALL]

Suzanne, these scripyeures talk of doing evil and thinking they can becaise they are saved, not not doing good and losing salvation. Many think that because they are saved that they have a free ride and Paul says they don't.

I believe that's the point she's trying get across.

Maybe i didn"t say it right. just because we don't do what are called good works is not the same catagory as doing bad and losing salvation. there are only two commandments to obey and they have been stated already.. Paul was saying don't depend onyour confession to keep you from downfall if you do evil The 2 are not the same situation

Only having 2 commandments is incorrect as one of the commandments breaks down into many others.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. - Romans 13:8-10

Our good works is our keeping from doing the bad works.

When you were born you bcame a member of that family. As you grew, you were expected to take ouy the trash but you didn't, did you get kicked out of the house for not following the commandment to dump the trash. You were disobedient but should you be disowned? no matter what, you are still a member of that family. It is not can we lose salvation or even give it up but under what circumstances and how bad is bad enough. That is not our decision. paul said "let every man be convinced. To him that knoweth to do good and does it not, to him it is sin". That does not mean works or lack of saves or keeps saved but not to judge whether others are or are not.

Some say alchohol sends you to hell, others not, and so on. Paul talked on this extensively in romans on various do"s and dont's. God knows the heart. if i don't fellowship with other christians, am I in diobedience and going to hell? I think not. In fact, I believe not. I should because it helps me to grow, if i don't attend some kind of bible study, church or other learning then am i in trouble with god but I talk to him and worship him. How about the death bed confession, the invalis, Adam and Eve. who did they preach to or hungry feed.

You are saved by grace and not of works lest any man boast. this applies before and after rebirth.

wayne

Then how would you answer this?

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. - Ephesians 5:3-6

"As becometh saints" means after we have become Christians.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. - Romans 11:22

"IF" we continue in his goodness. The word "IF" is conditional. We will receive the goodness of God "IF" we continue in his goodness: otherwise we will be cut off.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. - Romans 11:20-21

The Israelites we cut off because of their unbelief. We are told to fear because as that they were not spared neither shall we if we don't take heed.

Even though our salvation and reconciliation back to God was a free gift we are still required to be obedient to the gospel of Christ or we will be cut off.

You can't use the analogy you used about being a family and taking out trash as you are using your mind and understanding to define the wisdom of God. Just because you think the way you do doesn't mean that it trumps over scripture and scripture says that if we choose to keep our sins and not repent of them we will forfeit our salvation.

This is not speaking of falling into a sin and repenting of it. It is speaking of if I choose to be a drunk, fornicator, liar, thief, etc. and refuse to repent of those sins and/or die in them I will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is scripture.

Look at all that these verses are saying -

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 3:12-19

These are speaking to Christians. The "rest" that is for us is heaven. We depart form God the day that we choose to live in sin over living according to the scriptures. The works that we do is putting these sins out of our lives and fleeing temptations.

Remember, God killed 23,000 of his own people in one day for committing fornication. He killed two Christians in the book of Acts for lying.

If our hearts are set on doing the will of God through faith then when we do fall we have the mercy of God to receive forgiveness when we repent and confess, but if we think we can keep sin in our lives without repentance because we are saved by grace through faith then we are both incorrect and stand a good chance to not inherit the kingdom of God.

We are warned throughout the scriptures to look to ourselves, work out our salvation, and repent of our sins because unrepented sins can still take a Christian to hell. And just in case it is brought up, this is not referring to one sin that I forgot to take care of before we die. Many Christians today think it is okay to live Christianity as a drunk, in fornication, tell white lies, etc. and still make it to heaven because of Eph. 2:8,9.

You are talking outright blatant sin. We were talking about not doing good works after salvation to keep salvation. Those are two totally different subjects

[ALTACALL]

Suzanne, these scripyeures talk of doing evil and thinking they can becaise they are saved, not not doing good and losing salvation. Many think that because they are saved that they have a free ride and Paul says they don't.

I believe that's the point she's trying get across.

Maybe i didn"t say it right. just because we don't do what are called good works is not the same catagory as doing bad and losing salvation. there are only two commandments to obey and they have been stated already.. Paul was saying don't depend onyour confession to keep you from downfall if you do evil The 2 are not the same situation

Only having 2 commandments is incorrect as one of the commandments breaks down into many others.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. - Romans 13:8-10

Our good works is our keeping from doing the bad works.

When you were born you bcame a member of that family. As you grew, you were expected to take ouy the trash but you didn't, did you get kicked out of the house for not following the commandment to dump the trash. You were disobedient but should you be disowned? no matter what, you are still a member of that family. It is not can we lose salvation or even give it up but under what circumstances and how bad is bad enough. That is not our decision. paul said "let every man be convinced. To him that knoweth to do good and does it not, to him it is sin". That does not mean works or lack of saves or keeps saved but not to judge whether others are or are not.

Some say alchohol sends you to hell, others not, and so on. Paul talked on this extensively in romans on various do"s and dont's. God knows the heart. if i don't fellowship with other christians, am I in diobedience and going to hell? I think not. In fact, I believe not. I should because it helps me to grow, if i don't attend some kind of bible study, church or other learning then am i in trouble with god but I talk to him and worship him. How about the death bed confession, the invalis, Adam and Eve. who did they preach to or hungry feed.

You are saved by grace and not of works lest any man boast. this applies before and after rebirth.

wayne

Then how would you answer this?

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. - Ephesians 5:3-6

"As becometh saints" means after we have become Christians.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. - Romans 11:22

"IF" we continue in his goodness. The word "IF" is conditional. We will receive the goodness of God "IF" we continue in his goodness: otherwise we will be cut off.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. - Romans 11:20-21

The Israelites we cut off because of their unbelief. We are told to fear because as that they were not spared neither shall we if we don't take heed.

Even though our salvation and reconciliation back to God was a free gift we are still required to be obedient to the gospel of Christ or we will be cut off.

You can't use the analogy you used about being a family and taking out trash as you are using your mind and understanding to define the wisdom of God. Just because you think the way you do doesn't mean that it trumps over scripture and scripture says that if we choose to keep our sins and not repent of them we will forfeit our salvation.

This is not speaking of falling into a sin and repenting of it. It is speaking of if I choose to be a drunk, fornicator, liar, thief, etc. and refuse to repent of those sins and/or die in them I will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is scripture.

Look at all that these verses are saying -

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 3:12-19

These are speaking to Christians. The "rest" that is for us is heaven. We depart form God the day that we choose to live in sin over living according to the scriptures. The works that we do is putting these sins out of our lives and fleeing temptations.

Remember, God killed 23,000 of his own people in one day for committing fornication. He killed two Christians in the book of Acts for lying.

If our hearts are set on doing the will of God through faith then when we do fall we have the mercy of God to receive forgiveness when we repent and confess, but if we think we can keep sin in our lives without repentance because we are saved by grace through faith then we are both incorrect and stand a good chance to not inherit the kingdom of God.

We are warned throughout the scriptures to look to ourselves, work out our salvation, and repent of our sins because unrepented sins can still take a Christian to hell. And just in case it is brought up, this is not referring to one sin that I forgot to take care of before we die. Many Christians today think it is okay to live Christianity as a drunk, in fornication, tell white lies, etc. and still make it to heaven because of Eph. 2:8,9.

You are talking outright blatant sin. We were talking about not doing good works after salvation to keep salvation. Those are two totally different subjects

I need to add that we don't live under the 10 commandment, we live under grace and tha commandment of love thy neighbor as thy self. If tou do that then the law is fulfilled. Isn't that why we do good things, because we love one another

[exrockstar]

but lemme guess...you hear voices that tell you what to do right? you live life through feelings? nevermind doctrine

but follow that sensation.

Those little voices....those feelings.....that sensation.

It's called the Holy Spirit.

now i get ya.

from here on, we should all pull up a chair when we're in doubt about a subject matter and ask you.

[exrockstar]

did i say "works?" imma have to go back and look.

those chapters deal with obedience.

"Works" is obedience.

let me help you...."works is a demonstration of obedience."

let that marinade in you for a while.

[Guest man]

I think that you are wrong when you say that the simplicity that is in Christ is to be obedient to the golden rule.

The gospel is a simple one found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

If you take the blood of Jesus out of your gospel you have no gospel at all.

1 Corinthians 15

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,

2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you

[Guest man]

but lemme guess...you hear voices that tell you what to do right? you live life through feelings? nevermind doctrine

but follow that sensation.

Those little voices....those feelings.....that sensation.

It's called the Holy Spirit.

now i get ya.

from here on, we should all pull up a chair when we're in doubt about a subject matter and ask you.

I'm ok with that.

[ALTACALL]

by ALTACALL:

Let me get this straight, the beggar brings the paper and the billionaire gives him a mansion for bringing it and his generosity is a gift? Well here's my analogy. the beggar was not offered a gift, he was offered a job, he did a service and he got paid. The gift would be if the beggar couldn't deliver the paper and the billionaire saw he couldn't and gave him the mansion anyway. Or someone else delivered the paper in rain, sleet,snow and heat of day,because the beggar couldn't but the billionaire gave the mansion to the beggar. Now, that's a gift.

And this is why we hate analogies. The free gift of God is not our mansion in heaven, it

[ALTACALL]

I think that you are wrong when you say that the simplicity that is in Christ is to be obedient to the golden rule.

The gospel is a simple one found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

If you take the blood of Jesus out of your gospel you have no gospel at all.

1 Corinthians 15

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,

2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you

[ALTACALL]

by ALTACALL:

Let me get this straight, the beggar brings the paper and the billionaire gives him a mansion for bringing it and his generosity is a gift? Well here's my analogy. the beggar was not offered a gift, he was offered a job, he did a service and he got paid. The gift would be if the beggar couldn't deliver the paper and the billionaire saw he couldn't and gave him the mansion anyway. Or someone else delivered the paper in rain, sleet,snow and heat of day,because the beggar couldn't but the billionaire gave the mansion to the beggar. Now, that's a gift.

And this is why we hate analogies. The free gift of God is not our mansion in heaven, it

[tsth]

Suzanne, these scripyeures talk of doing evil and thinking they can becaise they are saved, not not doing good and losing salvation. Many think that because they are saved that they have a free ride and Paul says they don't.

I believe that's the point she's trying get across.

Maybe i didn"t say it right. just because we don't do what are called good works is not the same catagory as doing bad and losing salvation. there are only two commandments to obey and they have been stated already.. Paul was saying don't depend onyour confession to keep you from downfall if you do evil The 2 are not the same situation

Only having 2 commandments is incorrect as one of the commandments breaks down into many others.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. - Romans 13:8-10

Our good works is our keeping from doing the bad works.

When you were born you bcame a member of that family. As you grew, you were expected to take ouy the trash but you didn't, did you get kicked out of the house for not following the commandment to dump the trash. You were disobedient but should you be disowned? no matter what, you are still a member of that family. It is not can we lose salvation or even give it up but under what circumstances and how bad is bad enough. That is not our decision. paul said "let every man be convinced. To him that knoweth to do good and does it not, to him it is sin". That does not mean works or lack of saves or keeps saved but not to judge whether others are or are not.

Some say alchohol sends you to hell, others not, and so on. Paul talked on this extensively in romans on various do"s and dont's. God knows the heart. if i don't fellowship with other christians, am I in diobedience and going to hell? I think not. In fact, I believe not. I should because it helps me to grow, if i don't attend some kind of bible study, church or other learning then am i in trouble with god but I talk to him and worship him. How about the death bed confession, the invalis, Adam and Eve. who did they preach to or hungry feed.

You are saved by grace and not of works lest any man boast. this applies before and after rebirth.

wayne

Then how would you answer this?

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. - Ephesians 5:3-6

"As becometh saints" means after we have become Christians.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. - Romans 11:22

"IF" we continue in his goodness. The word "IF" is conditional. We will receive the goodness of God "IF" we continue in his goodness: otherwise we will be cut off.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. - Romans 11:20-21

The Israelites we cut off because of their unbelief. We are told to fear because as that they were not spared neither shall we if we don't take heed.

Even though our salvation and reconciliation back to God was a free gift we are still required to be obedient to the gospel of Christ or we will be cut off.

You can't use the analogy you used about being a family and taking out trash as you are using your mind and understanding to define the wisdom of God. Just because you think the way you do doesn't mean that it trumps over scripture and scripture says that if we choose to keep our sins and not repent of them we will forfeit our salvation.

This is not speaking of falling into a sin and repenting of it. It is speaking of if I choose to be a drunk, fornicator, liar, thief, etc. and refuse to repent of those sins and/or die in them I will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is scripture.

Look at all that these verses are saying -

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 3:12-19

These are speaking to Christians. The "rest" that is for us is heaven. We depart form God the day that we choose to live in sin over living according to the scriptures. The works that we do is putting these sins out of our lives and fleeing temptations.

Remember, God killed 23,000 of his own people in one day for committing fornication. He killed two Christians in the book of Acts for lying.

If our hearts are set on doing the will of God through faith then when we do fall we have the mercy of God to receive forgiveness when we repent and confess, but if we think we can keep sin in our lives without repentance because we are saved by grace through faith then we are both incorrect and stand a good chance to not inherit the kingdom of God.

We are warned throughout the scriptures to look to ourselves, work out our salvation, and repent of our sins because unrepented sins can still take a Christian to hell. And just in case it is brought up, this is not referring to one sin that I forgot to take care of before we die. Many Christians today think it is okay to live Christianity as a drunk, in fornication, tell white lies, etc. and still make it to heaven because of Eph. 2:8,9.

Thank you deut. 3:12. You stated clearly, what I was attempting to convey. I think you did a much "clearer" job of it!!! I TOTALLY AGREE!

In His Love,

Suzanne