What About Belief?

[exrockstar]

I think I'm making it sound complicated. Sorry, don't mean to. I'm just saying that for it to be TRUE, "belief/faith/" it must be obedience, therefore you have to have ALL of the components of BELIEF/FAITH/OBEDIENCE. They all go together.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I think you can have belief/faith without obedience.

Check this out...

Romans 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

These people were shown the truth and they believed....otherwise it wouldn't have been truth to them. They however did not act upon that truth and brought the wrath of God against them.

of coarse you can have belief in God without obedience.

it's sad how there is a member here in this thread who's passing scripture interpretation

but doesnt know she's hurting the grace concept.

there is THAT faith that acknowledges that there is a god. There are many

religions that believe that to be true. Most religions believe there is a "one god."

the scripture says "Jude 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. "

however believing there is a god does not save you. actually believing there is a god and being good does not save you either. so it is true

that works does not save you.

have you noticed that accepting Christ, which is what does save you, is not mentioned in this passage?

so "yes" there are many that will accept Christ but will not take doctrine in to demonstrate it. but NOT demonstratiing it does not mean they

are not really saved. it just means that God will whip them in shape.

[tsth]

I think I'm making it sound complicated. Sorry, don't mean to. I'm just saying that for it to be TRUE, "belief/faith/" it must be obedience, therefore you have to have ALL of the components of BELIEF/FAITH/OBEDIENCE. They all go together.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I think you can have belief/faith without obedience.

Check this out...

Romans 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

These people were shown the truth and they believed....otherwise it wouldn't have been truth to them. They however did not act upon that truth and brought the wrath of God against them.

of coarse you can have belief in God without obedience.

it's sad how there is a member here in this thread who's passing scripture interpretation

but doesnt know she's hurting the grace concept.

there is THAT faith that acknowledges that there is a god. There are many

religions that believe that to be true. Most religions believe there is a "one god."

the scripture says "Jude 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. "

however believing there is a god does not save you. actually believing there is a god and being good does not save you either. so it is true

that works does not save you.

have you noticed that accepting Christ, which is what does save you, is not mentioned in this passage?

so "yes" there are many that will accept Christ but will not take doctrine in to demonstrate it. but NOT demonstratiing it does not mean they

are not really saved. it just means that God will whip them in shape.

So, we can ignore the warning within the Word?

Hebrews 3:7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, 9 where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. 10 That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.' 11 So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'" 12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15 As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." 16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

So, you are saying that God will show us MORE FAVOR, and whip US into shape? But, too bad for the Israelites, because they just disobeyed/disbelieved, and He didn't want to spend the time "whipping them into shape"???

I think you need to think about what we are being warned of. Maybe you ought to go back and read my original post, to understand what is being spoken of?

1 Cor. 10:6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry." 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test the Lord, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel. 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. 14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[EricH]

There's a whole chapter that substantiates the instruction. It's in Hebrews chapter 11.

4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead. 5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. 7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. 8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 By faith Abraham, even though he was past age--and Sarah herself was barren--was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. 13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. 17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 19 Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future. 21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph's sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions about his bones. 23 By faith Moses' parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king's edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh's daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king's anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel. 29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days. 31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.

32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Have you also taken into account the multitude of verses that seem to indicate that the believer is secure in their faith?

[Guest man]

If you leave the path to eternal life, you won

[tsth]

And THAT was the message brought forth from the passages I posted. They turned away. THAT WAS THE WARNING! (See Heb. 3:12-14 below) The warning was for US, no matter how much we don't want to see it........it's there.

1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry." 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test the Lord, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel. 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. 14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.

Hebrews 3:7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, 9 where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. 10 That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.' 11 So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'" 12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15 As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." 16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Jude 1:5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[exrockstar]

So, we can ignore the warning within the Word?

Hebrews 3:7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, 9 where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. 10 That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.' 11 So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'" 12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15 As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." 16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

So, you are saying that God will show us MORE FAVOR, and whip US into shape? But, too bad for the Israelites, because they just disobeyed/disbelieved, and He didn't want to spend the time "whipping them into shape"???

I think you need to think about what we are being warned of. Maybe you ought to go back and read my original post, to understand what is being spoken of?

1 Cor. 10:6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry." 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test the Lord, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel. 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. 14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.

In His Love,

Suzanne

do you even understand what that "rest" was/is?

youre missing the point of that passage.

the author said "19 So we see that they were not able to enter (rest), because of their unbelief. "

explain that to me because i am wondering if you understand what that passage is saying.

[Guest man]

So, we can ignore the warning within the Word?

But, too bad for the Israelites, because they just disobeyed/disbelieved,

One should never ignore the warnings given from God.

I think what we see today is not so much a disbelief, but a disobedience. Granted, there are many who don't believe, but a vast majority of those who do, don't listen. They are taught that it's ok to do certain things because as long as you believe, you're good to go. These people are rebelling against God and don't even know it.

[jackie d]

my point and intention of previous posts is this: faith and devotion lead me to obedience. Before I came to Him I was not obedient, but you see I had no faith and was most certainly not devoted to Him. As my life was changed by Him I desired and strove to be obedient because I love Him and wish to please Him. It is my belief and faith in Him that is the key to my being obedient....I have not taken works out of the equation because they are necessary, what I have done is emphacized faith over works as works cannot save me. As it is I fail miserably to be who He would have me be, if I had not faith in His promise and work upon the cross I would have given up long ago for my failure would remain my shame.

[tsth]

Completely agree jackied....and again proves my point that they ALL must be a part of the equation. You cannot have a portion missing of the 3.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

If you leave the path to eternal life, you won