What About Belief?

[Guest man]

I REFER TO ABRAHAM'S WORK WAS HIS FAITH IN GOD BY OBEDIENCE. LET'S NOT CONFUSE WORKS OF FAITH WITH PHYSICAL WORKS OF MAN.

The key to true faith is "obedience" to the Word.

Works of faith and physical works go hand in hand.

James 2

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them,

[exrockstar]

This is incorrect.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. - Hebrews 4:9-11

Our works is just our obedience to the gospel of Christ.

Paul gave us a good example of how it is done.

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:6-8

The course that Paul is saying that he has finished is the works and labor under the gospel of Christ that he did. He fought the good fight and is now ready to enter into the rest that God has prepared for him, which is not to Paul only, but to all them also that love his appearing.

Also, our "works" is our fight in fighting the good fight that Paul spoke of.

Since Paul is speaking of receiving the crown of righteousness "at that day", it is not "believe today and get paid today".

great believe what you want. but youre talking about rewards which is what the crown is all about (2 Timothy 4:6-8).

you maybe dont believe in those so i wont go there with you.

thanks

[Guest man]

exrockstar

That "rest" is acheived here in our lifetime and not after in death.

This "rest" is not heaven nor anything given to us after death.

You believe today and get paid today NOT when you die.

So what is it that we are resting from?

What do we get from this rest?

What are the rewards and benefits of receiving this rest while we're still here on earth?

[Reuben Hick]

This is incorrect.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. - Hebrews 4:9-11

Our works is just our obedience to the gospel of Christ.

Paul gave us a good example of how it is done.

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:6-8

The course that Paul is saying that he has finished is the works and labor under the gospel of Christ that he did. He fought the good fight and is now ready to enter into the rest that God has prepared for him, which is not to Paul only, but to all them also that love his appearing.

Also, our "works" is our fight in fighting the good fight that Paul spoke of.

Since Paul is speaking of receiving the crown of righteousness "at that day", it is not "believe today and get paid today".

great believe what you want. but youre talking about rewards which is what the crown is all about (2 Timothy 4:6-8).

you maybe dont believe in those so i wont go there with you.

thanks

So is your faith just a complex and unspecific system of quid pro quos with the Creator?

[Reuben Hick]

This is incorrect.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. - Hebrews 4:9-11

Our works is just our obedience to the gospel of Christ.

Paul gave us a good example of how it is done.

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:6-8

The course that Paul is saying that he has finished is the works and labor under the gospel of Christ that he did. He fought the good fight and is now ready to enter into the rest that God has prepared for him, which is not to Paul only, but to all them also that love his appearing.

Also, our "works" is our fight in fighting the good fight that Paul spoke of.

Since Paul is speaking of receiving the crown of righteousness "at that day", it is not "believe today and get paid today".

great believe what you want. but youre talking about rewards which is what the crown is all about (2 Timothy 4:6-8).

you maybe dont believe in those so i wont go there with you.

thanks

So is your faith just a complex and unspecific system of quid pro quos with the Creator?

[Viribus Unitis]

The number of people who have left the faith is so large , that claiming otherwise seems wishful thinking to me.

[Viribus Unitis]

Smalcald wrote:

I believe scripture shows that indeed some who have faith will later not have faith. This may certainly be evidenced by their sinful lives which are not truly repented of. Consider the parable of the sower.

However, all Christians sin all of their life and these sins are forgiven as we have faith and that faith which give us access to grace, which actually saves us; leads us continually to repentance and a desire to do better. But I think some of this discussion is now leaning dangerously close to a salvation by works. If we cannot earn our salvation through our works, we cannot lose it either. All works can do is evidence who we are as believers, or evidence who we are as non-believers. We should WANT to do what pleases God, when we do not want to do this we have lost our faith. But some of the worst sins cannot even be seen by men, a brittle self-righteous pride that feels the need to condemn others instead of looking deep inside them is one. The other is being jealous of the sinner

[exrockstar]

Smalcald wrote:

I believe scripture shows that indeed some who have faith will later not have faith. This may certainly be evidenced by their sinful lives which are not truly repented of. Consider the parable of the sower.

However, all Christians sin all of their life and these sins are forgiven as we have faith and that faith which give us access to grace, which actually saves us; leads us continually to repentance and a desire to do better. But I think some of this discussion is now leaning dangerously close to a salvation by works. If we cannot earn our salvation through our works, we cannot lose it either. All works can do is evidence who we are as believers, or evidence who we are as non-believers. We should WANT to do what pleases God, when we do not want to do this we have lost our faith. But some of the worst sins cannot even be seen by men, a brittle self-righteous pride that feels the need to condemn others instead of looking deep inside them is one. The other is being jealous of the sinner

[tsth]

This is the strangest phenomenon that I can imagine.

It is, isn't it?

By the way, unred........that was an EXCELLENT post!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Let's look at the Scriptures again. What does It say???:

Something that I came across last night in our Bible Study:

1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry." 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test the Lord, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel. 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. 14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.

Hebrews 3:7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, 9 where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. 10 That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.' 11 So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'" 12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15 As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." 16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Jude 1:5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

We cannot overlook these things!

In His Love,

Suzanne