Debate split from God is Indescribable

[DozyBen]

I assume this was posted in the Faith vs. Science part of Apologetics because other views on the same material are welcome??

Louie makes a logical error much the same as the person who thought up that dilemma for scientists. The chief argument for there being more life out there is not that the universe is too oversized if it's just us, it's that there are quite possibly millions of other planets which are similar enough to us to be able to support life. If life occured once then it might have occured again.

The logical error is thinking that the answer to 'why the universe?' might possibly involve us in it. There's no evidence of an ultimate reason behind the universe let alone one that includes humans. The history of human discovery has always put a god behind natural processes (Thor for thunder as an example) until we knew enough to understand the natural process in more detail.

Another thread detailed pieces in scripture which the poster thought showed divine inspiration because how could they know about the hydrological cycle 2,400 years ago? The answer is that they didn't, hence they said God did it and that's what the scripture says because that's what they thought at the time. Since then we've worked out God didn't do it (at least not directly) and we gave it the fancy name of hydrological cycle.

The second error Louie makes is harder to spot. God (as a lot of you describe him some of you may not) is infinite. If the universe is to show off the splendour of an infinite God, then it is not the right size, it is too small!

If you want the challenge of feeling small, I mean really really small, then imagine a universe with no purpose, which wasn't created for you to live on, that just is.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

(Thor for thunder as an example)

Thor's not responsible for the Thunder it's Jehovah. Thor, how Silly.

If you want the challenge of feeling small, I mean really really small, then imagine a universe with no purpose, which wasn't created for you to live on, that just is.

What a very sad thought.

So because you have no purpose in your life you've made it your goal to distinguish the indistiguishable?

Let me tell you the Truth. You and the Universe both have a purpose and that is to Glorify God. I am praying that you come to know His Love and then Purpose will no longer avoid your reason and you will give Glory where Glory is due.

The fact of the matter is that God does indeed Love you whether you reciprocate or ever accept it or not is another matter.

Joh

[DozyBen]

Meh, I have no idea what you mean by distinguishing the indistinguishable!

The thought that the universe has no purpose is only sad for you. You're going to fail everytime in an argument against me about how I feel. I know this because I'm feeling it when I describe it! I won't lie, promise.

There's no evidence we have individual purposes either.

Evidence everlasting life after death for me and maybe I'll consider your quote of Joh 3:16 to have some value. I don't even mind if the evidence is logical rather than physical (I mean I don't want you to die!).

You see, I'm not posting on here to convert any of you. I'm not here to be converted. I'm here to read and learn and see if there is any truth in whatever claims people make. While I'm at it, I like to point out logical flaws in people's thinking so that they can make better decisions for themselves in future. Louie makes a couple of mistakes which the OP believes, hence my post. Do you think I was incorrect?

[Guest HIS girl]

You see, I'm not posting on here to convert any of you. I'm not here to be converted. I'm here to read and learn and see if there is any truth in whatever claims people make.

Wow, you are coming here to see whether what you read is true or false. You say you want to learn and read if there is any truth in peoples claims. That statement would make you worthy of judging people and there has only been one person worthy of judging any human being and that is Jesus Christ our Savior.

How 'bout reading the Bible and checking out Jesus's Truth and then check back to the Boards to see what aligns with His teachings.

[Guest HIS girl]

DBen, you ask for evidence for lifeafter death. Jesus is that evidence. You may reject that as evidence because you sound like an "if I can't see it, I don't believe it" kinda guy, yet you believe in evolution which is not provable. You believe in an Earth of millions of years old, yet there isn't solid evidence for that fact, you weren't there in the beginning to see proof and yet you believe that to be true. Do you not? Isn't that also called faith? Believing in something unseen?

[nebula]

it's that there are quite possibly millions of other planets which are similar enough to us to be able to support life. If life occured once then it might have occured again.

It never ceases to amaze me how all these scientists can fail to appreciate just how complex life an life processes are. By this argument, they make "life" seem as simple as mixing soil and water together to make clay.

The logical error is thinking that the answer to 'why the universe?' might possibly involve us in it.

The odd thing is that your thinking begins with the premise that there is no reason to have meaning to life in order to come back to the conclusion that there is no meaning to life.

Why don't you try observing the fallacy of your own line of thinking?

There's no evidence of an ultimate reason behind the universe let alone one that includes humans.

For some.

The history of human discovery has always put a god behind natural processes (Thor for thunder as an example) until we knew enough to understand the natural process in more detail.

Let me teach you something: the search for God is more than just the study of natural processes. If natural processes are all you see, you are missing out on what it means to be human.

Another thread detailed pieces in scripture which the poster thought showed divine inspiration because how could they know about the hydrological cycle 2,400 years ago? The answer is that they didn't, hence they said God did it and that's what the scripture says because that's what they thought at the time. Since then we've worked out God didn't do it (at least not directly) and we gave it the fancy name of hydrological cycle.

Actually, it isn't natural processes that have replaced your belief in God; it is your own reason that you have been giving honor and glory to.

The second error Louie makes is harder to spot. God (as a lot of you describe him some of you may not) is infinite. If the universe is to show off the splendour of an infinite God, then it is not the right size, it is too small!

God can hold the universe in the palm of His hand, and you believe it is too small? How big do you want the universe to be?

And are you sure scientists have discovered the full dimensions of the universe? How do you know we just haven't built a large enough telescope to see farther?

If you want the challenge of feeling small, I mean really really small, then imagine a universe with no purpose, which wasn't created for you to live on, that just is.

No, that isn't feeling small; that is feeling hopeless and it takes the wonder out of everything.

[nebula]

The thought that the universe has no purpose is only sad for you. You're going to fail everytime in an argument against me about how I feel. I know this because I'm feeling it when I describe it! I won't lie, promise.

And I was describing my feeling.

There's no evidence we have individual purposes either.

Remind me not to volunteer you as a counselor for anyone who is hurting and struggling through life.

Evidence everlasting life after death for me and maybe I'll consider your quote of Joh 3:16 to have some value. I don't even mind if the evidence is logical rather than physical (I mean I don't want you to die!).

Would hearing of people giving testimony that they have died and come back to life, giving accounts of what they saw "on the other side" be evidence to you? or are you more close-minded than you admit and will reject what they have to say as imagination or fable?

You see, I'm not posting on here to convert any of you. I'm not here to be converted. I'm here to read and learn and see if there is any truth in whatever claims people make. While I'm at it, I like to point out logical flaws in people's thinking so that they can make better decisions for themselves in future. Louie makes a couple of mistakes which the OP believes, hence my post. Do you think I was incorrect?

Of course I think you are incorrect.

Why don't you try critically thinking your own beliefs?

[Matthitjah]

DBen, you ask for evidence for lifeafter death. Jesus is that evidence. You may reject that as evidence because you sound like an "if I can't see it, I don't believe it" kinda guy, yet you believe in evolution which is not provable. You believe in an Earth of millions of years old, yet there isn't solid evidence for that fact, you weren't there in the beginning to see proof and yet you believe that to be true. Do you not? Isn't that also called faith? Believing in something unseen?

It is actually about 4.5 billion years old. And there is a bit more evidence for that than even the existence of someone named Jesus in Israel a couple of thousand years ago.

Have you ever seen Jesus? I suspect not. All you have seen is a book cobbled together several hundred years after it was written. There are no extant copies of a first draft. At least parts of it were written for nomadic goat herders.

Grace to you,

Actually, I have seen Him manifest His Glory and His presence. I have been where He is and He arrived and delivered me.

Do you not believe that Jesus was a real person?

You seem to state that the evidence for an old earth is more prevalent nd forceful than eyewitness testimony.

May I ask, which one holds up in a court of Law?

Peace,

Dave

[nebula]

It is actually about 4.5 billion years old. And there is a bit more evidence for that than even the existence of someone named Jesus in Israel a couple of thousand years ago.

Have you ever seen Jesus? I suspect not. All you have seen is a book cobbled together several hundred years after it was written. There are no extant copies of a first draft. At least parts of it were written for nomadic goat herders.

People who have done their research have concluded that there is more evidence for the reliability of the Bible than there is for Plato and his works.

[odditblue]

Don't have to see Jesus to know him.

Don't have to see the sun to believe it's still shining, even from behind the clouds.

Don't have to feel love to believe in it.

For those of us who have found faith, no logic or exhaustive explanation or findings of some detailed study or historical report can cause it to disappear.

When faith is the one substance to hold onto in life's darkest moments, and no explanation or logic can bring you any peace, but Jesus brings to you a kind of peace that passes all knowledge or understanding... it's beyond logic...

then Jesus is what is worth holding onto.

And everything else pales in comparison, no matter how intellectual or logical it seems.

Not one other person on earth can hear my innermost thoughts

or answer my whispered prayer of desperation

or be closer to me than my own skin

or be more needed than my next breath

or be more intimate than my very heartbeat.

One cannot find that kind of a relationship with any other being

except for Jesus alone.