Prisoner abuse

[Anonymous]

but by allowing those photos to be released and shown on every news station and in every paper and magazine, isn't that putting all of america in violation? granted, the GC only applies to military individuals, but it is our government that is allowing the photos to be released, isn't it?

Well LadyC.... they say there are more to come (Photos and videos)!

I heard today on Fox Cable News one of the visiting commentators say the US government plans to release them all (to USA Public and the Arab World).

Their intent for doing so is to prove to the world that we're not hiding anything and that we won't tolerate such inhuman activities!

[traveller]

In an article that I read, rumsfield said that worse is to come. He said "rape and murder." The Pentagon and Congress are going to privately view the remaining photos.

Bad stuff coming I fear.

[Catsmeow]

That was not an excuse.

It is still a fact though. It makes me wonder why no one complains about OUR sisters and OUR brothers and OUR family here being abused and in many cases even murdered with no protest.

This is not America on her best behaviour but the protest is way out of balance. War is always ugly and people get hurt. We are taking action to rectify the situation. That is plenty.

It is naive to think that our enemies have pure motives about human rights violations. They are looking for anything to weaken us.

Should we put our tail between our legs and run away?

No. We should flatten Fallujah.

YOD, bruh...I beg to differ. It IS an excuse. The thread is NOT about American prisoner abuse.

That's a distraction from the topic. Why can't we just stay on topic and discuss this particular abuse?

There's all kinds of abuses in this world but bringing that into the mix doesn't address the issue at hand.

The issue isn't whether American prisons are good or bad; the issue concerns wartime behavior pertaining to Iraqi prisoners and whether or not we are following the rules of engagement and the Geneva Convention with prisoners.

Please, check out Godman's link to the "fallacies of argumentation"...Who cares about the price of bacon in Iowa? Who cares about irrelevant issues.

This is about POW abuse..not the American penal system.

SOMEBODY DROPPED THE BALL...and somebody must be accountable for what has happened.

Man, we are sure a country of people who refuse to acknowledge our own sins. We just want to change the subject and avoid the truth, don't we.

It's WRONG what happened and frankly, let's just forget the American Penal system in this thread.

[wordsower]

Yod,

Unfortunately Wordsower there will be a loser that isn't even involved.

I'm afraid that we will appease Arab anger by turning from Israel.

I hope you're not right, but I fear you are, especially if Bush doesn't get re-elected.

I've thought for the longest time that King Abdullah of Jordan was the one person who could credibly negotiate a "covenant with the many" (Daniel) and he's starting to take an active role

.

I had a dream a couple of years ago that he was assasinated. (??)

Keep looking up...our redemption draweth nigh.

I hope that christians will not fall away when they find out that we aren't going to disappear before it get really, really, really bad....

Actually, I agree with you here. I believe in a rapture, but I don't think many are going in it.

[Guest yod]

YOD, bruh...I beg to differ. It IS an excuse. The thread is NOT about American prisoner abuse.

This is about POW abuse..not the American penal system.

SOMEBODY DROPPED THE BALL...and somebody must be accountable for what has happened.

Man, we are sure a country of people who refuse to acknowledge our own sins. We just want to change the subject and avoid the truth, don't we.

It's WRONG what happened and frankly, let's just forget the American Penal system in this thread.

With all due respect my dear sister....prisoners are prisoners.

The point I'm trying to make is that we have hypocrites who are blowing this way out of proportion for political gain. They are making it much worse than it is simply as a means of dividing us and it's causing more inflamation in the arab world than is necessary.

Two words to prove it;

Hillary Clinton

What she did in England was treasonous. Just like her hubby who protested the war from England, she is trying to stir up anti-American sentiments in foreign nations ON PURPOSE.

We will apprehend and prosecute every person involved with this Iraqi scandal because we ARE a nation of laws and human rights even though these were not innocent people in the prison. This absolutely cannot go unpunished or swept under a rug.

I'm just not impressed with those accusers in the Arab world who are doing much worse things to their own citizens (and to christians)

I am not excusing anything....just trying to give it proper balance.

[Guest charlie]

The point I'm trying to make is that we have hypocrites who are blowing this way out of proportion for political gain. They are making it much worse than it is simply as a means of dividing us and it's causing more inflamation in the arab world than is necessary.

The world is full of hypocrites Yod. I think we're being hypocrites when we say that the war is justified because we removed Saddam Husseim, an evil dictator, (after no WMD were found) then turn around and do evil ourselves. Sorry, but I think "it's" gonna get much worse. We are the proverbial pot calling the kettle black at this point. I'm sickened.

Hillary Clinton? I can only say I hope that woman never becomes president, not that we have honorable men in that office these days anyway.

I do believe that Hillary's husband Bill set a very bad prescedent: He was impeached, yet wouldn't resign his office. Now everyone, Rumsfeld is the current example will use the Clinton words, I take full responsiblity.....yet.....they will pay no price, not step down, not be prosecuted. Only the lowly ranked, will be prosecuted....not the big boys......same old, same old.

There's no excuse for doing wrong, no matter who is doing it, or what excuse they have for doing it.

All I can say is that I served two enlistments and I would have never followed perverted orders. That's just not in me.

Edited May 10, 2004 by charlie

[Guest yod]

The world is full of hypocrites Yod. I think we're being hypocrites when we say that the war is justified because we removed Saddam Husseim, an evil dictator, (after no WMD were found) then turn around and do evil ourselves. Sorry, but I think "it's" gonna get much worse. We are the proverbial pot calling the kettle black at this point. I'm sickened.

Hard to argue that....except for one thing.

Why do people keep saying that we haven't found any WMDs when we have?

Did you hear about the failed attack in Jordan designed to kill 80,000 people with WMDs supplied by Syria just a couple weeks ago? Israel told us 6 months before the war that Saddam was trucking it all to Syria. It's in the Bekka Valley of Lebanon now and we know it.

I don't understand why we haven't gone after it yet.

[other one]

I don't understand why we haven't gone after it yet.

And you won't as long as you eccept the agenda that GB is putting as to why he took us there in the first place.

If you look at it in that light, I agree it makes no sense at all. So, I think there must be some other reason we are there in the first place, which is what I have been trying to get people to understand all along.

Sam

[Catsmeow]

Me neither Charlie...I served a couple of years in the Air Force during the latter part of Nam and never went overseas....Still, I can assure you if they gave me such disgusting orders, I'd refuse and they'd have to send me to the brig.

I told my students at public school that sex was wrong outside of marriage because God said so. I didn't say because it was socially inappropriate or they might get AIDS or it's not "nice".

I told them the truth...God makes the rules and He said "No!"

It cost me my teaching contract for the next year.

So, as you can see...there'salways a price for doing the right thing.

You can do the right thing and lose your job but you'll still have your honor.

That's where I stand.

I am furthermore appalled beyond words that other women would degrade themselves like this and be caught on camera, posing in mocking positions - laughing at the prisoners.

How disgusting! I have learned that some people are totally without honor. Don't believe me? If you happen upon the Jerry Springer Show - you'll find the same kind of people there as you find snapping photos of naked Iraqi men.

I'm so ashamed I could puke. Sorry...I know, that's bad taste but it's truly where I'm at right now. I'm beyond disgust...

[Catsmeow]

YOD: Maybe this is a "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus" kinda thing.

Maybe the guys think, "Nah, it's not that bad...good grief. Boys will be boys.." I dunno. I admit, men are continually a mystery to me even today.

However, as a woman...I cannot even begin to fathom any woman who would degrade herself by being caught on film pointing and laughing at some poor prisoners "privates". That's sick.

Turn on CNN and that's what you see...over and over. Makes me want to cry.

It's disgusting because I'd like to think that we, as women, as still a little more sensitive to human feelings and care just a little about the very people we claim we are protecting.

I'd like to think that female soldiers would provide us a flicker of honor in that dry, desolate place and act and behave with some degree of kindness.

Maybe nobody remembers the two female missionaries in Afghanistan during 9/11. The girls were young, pretty girls who were doing humanitarian work there and jailed for teaching Christianity to the locals.

Well, after they were released, they told on camera how their Afghanistanian guards protected them, kept them from being harmed or violated, fed them their own food so they would have enough to eat and said they'd die for them if need be...as if they were their own sisters.

The Afghanis had grown to love the kind and gentle missionaries and sought to protect them. The girls returned home and wrote a book I haven't had a chance to read yet.

We are in a position to be a LIGHT in the darkness. We are in a position to demonstrate Christ in a godless world. We have opportunities to reach out in LOVE to our enemies.

These two girls did that...they loved the people of Afghanistan and it showed. They loved the girls back...calling them, "sisters"...even though they were Christian.

Why? Well, the soldiers/guards learned something amazing....that Christians are kind, loving, moral and upright, decent and kind and willing to die for what they believe. They discovered that all the lies they heard about Christians were just that....lies.

People....look - in Iraq we can either be an example of love and goodness and be a light in the darkness OR we can lower ourselves to their level and be no better than they.

We got a million excuses..."Well, that's war and boys will be boys" or whatever. There's always some reason we have to act like morons and excuse ourselves for it.

How about coming clean and saying, "Father, forgive us, we have sinned against you and these people. Have mercy on us; we were wrong."

How about that for a a change?