The Gospels and Paul

[Guest shiloh357]

Perhaps a better example is when Jesus says that it is better to say, cut off your hand than to burn in hell. Of course there is the surface implication that it is because of our sins that we are punished. However, there also seems to be the implication that one is able to avoid sinning and therefore Hell.

No that is not the point Jesus is making. Jesus is using a metaphor to explain that we need to cut off those things that hinder our walk with God. The point is that we need to cut off, evil habits, associations that would pull us away from God.

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

[deut31:12]

When reading through the Gospels, it seems clear that there is some sort of Works-Righteousness going on there. It's not until Paul (which was admittedly written before the Gospels) that we see Sola Fide language.

How do you explain this tension?

You are right in you assumption, but to many people get it very wrong. Jesus is our savior and without him there is none. He died on the cross for all mankind and his blood forgives our sins. Through this we are redeemed back to God.

What most people deny is that Jesus left for us a way of life to live before God. The entire New Testament tells us what God requires for mankind to be righteous before him. Not self righteousness, according to God's righteousness. When we obey the scriptures God considers us to be righteous. When we obey scriptures like this:

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. - Ephesians 5:3-6

We are considered to be righteous.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. - 1 John 3:7

Our obeying the words of Jesus in the scriptures is not for rewards like stars in a crown. That is said to justify a doctrine to believe that we really don't have to obey.

There are repercussions for not doing what is told to be done in the bible. A lack of obedience is sin since sin is a transgression of the gospel.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. - 2 John 1:9

What Paul was trying to teach us is even though we have been redeemed back to God we still have the ability to sin and give into our lusts. God and the Holy Spirit are there to help us overcome, but if I choose to keep my sins then I can lose the hope that was promised.

Paul told us of a battle that waged inside of him where the flesh was fighting to sin.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. - Romans 7:22-25

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:6-8

The fight that Paul fought is the same one that each and every one of us fights every day. Jesus told us to deny ourselves, our lives, and to take up our crosses and follow him. We do this by not living a life of sin. Not saying we won't sin, but that we fight this same fight that Paul did to serve the law of God.

Because Paul fought that good fight, finished his course, and kept the faith he has a crown of righteousness laid up for him in heaven. Paul's crown of righteousness came from him doing righteousness. The same is for everybody.

If all it took was faith then why would Paul speak of these things?

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. - 2 Timothy 1:12-14

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. - 2 Timothy 1:12-14

What do we entrust to God and what does he entrust to us? The promise of salvation.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. - 2 Peter 1:4

Our promise of eternal life is given to us by being partakers of the divine nature, which is the life we live in Christianity.

[deut31:12]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; - 2 Peter 2:4-6

Even the Angels that were sent to hell are an example for those who live ungodly.

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. - Luke 16:22-23

The rich man lifted his eyes from hell.

God created hell for those who chose a live of sin over the life of Christianity he wills for us to live. On judgment day hell will be cast into the lake of fire.

[nebula]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

Deut -

You seem to have a good understanding of sin.

But do you likewise have an understanding about grace?

[EricH]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

Because salvation is not based on anything we do, but on what Christ did.

[Smalcald]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

Because salvation is not based on anything we do, but on what Christ did.

ErichH, I totally agree.

However I think it would be helpful if you would take a crack at explaining what Paul means here though...

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (italics added)

[deut31:12]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

Deut -

You seem to have a good understanding of sin.

But do you likewise have an understanding about grace?

When Jesus died on the cross for the sin of mankind it did not automatically forgive everybody's sin. We have to make the choice to come to Jesus and accept Christianity. When we do this his blood washes us of our sins and we have access to his blood even after that if we sin again. This is the grace of God.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) - Ephesians 2:4-5

The difference between being and obedient Christian and a sinner is "sin". A sin is a transgression of the law of Christ and that law is defined in Rom 13:8-10.

What God is looking for if for us to make a choice in our lives to serve him by doing what he wants according to the scriptures or if we would rather live our lives without him serving sin. Those who choose to give their lives to God will come to the grace of God, but those who choose a life of sin will receive a life in hell.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. - John 4:23-24

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. - Romans 6:23

Do I want the wages of sin or the life through Jesus?

[Ovedya]

I think that was a "no," nebula.

[deut31:12]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

Because salvation is not based on anything we do, but on what Christ did.

Your answer has nothing to do what what is being said. What Jesus did for us on the cross was give us a away to be reconciled back to God. He also gave us a way of life we are to live before him. To transgress this way of life is what is called sin.

[Ovedya]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

Because salvation is not based on anything we do, but on what Christ did.

Your answer has nothing to do what what is being said. What Jesus did for us on the cross was give us a away to be reconciled back to God. He also gave us a way of life we are to live before him. To transgress this way of life is what is called sin.

Then logically God's very divine life is powerless against the believer's commission of sin, and therefore the shed blood of Christ is truly not able to wash away every sin. Even Jacob Arminius was not assured of this point.