The Gospels and Paul

[deut31:12]

The blood of Jesus has the power to wash away all sin, but it is up to the sinner to come to the blood of Christ to have that done, but your answer has nothing to do with this statement -

Actually it has everything to do with it. The blood of Christ was shed once and for all. It is not shed again and again each time we repent from our sins, and therefore its effectiveness is not limited by our sin. If, in our repentance from sin we cause the blood of Christ to be shed again and again, we would be bringing Him to open shame again and again (Heb. 6:6)

Still, your response to the what was being said was incorrect. I agree with what you are saying about the abilities of the blood of Christ, but hell is intended for those who die with sin on their souls.

[Ovedya]

The blood of Jesus has the power to wash away all sin, but it is up to the sinner to come to the blood of Christ to have that done, but your answer has nothing to do with this statement -

Actually it has everything to do with it. The blood of Christ was shed once and for all. It is not shed again and again each time we repent from our sins, and therefore its effectiveness is not limited by our sin. If, in our repentance from sin we cause the blood of Christ to be shed again and again, we would be bringing Him to open shame again and again (Heb. 6:6)

Still, your response to the what was being said was incorrect. I agree with what you are saying about the abilities of the blood of Christ, but hell is intended for those who die with sin on their souls.

Hell is for unbelievers. The lake of fire is prepared for the devil and his angels (messengers Matt. 25:41) Therefore believers neither end up in hell or the lake of fire.

[deut31:12]

So we have in the New Testament two things going on, entering and inheriting the Kingdom of heaven? I don't see that at all. I would have to agree with Det on that, it is splitting hairs; Paul was talking about salvation.

it's really not splitting hairs but hey....dismiss it if ya like.

point is that det originally had a disargeement about sinning sending a believer to hell.

all believers go to the bema seat but heaven or hell judgement is not what takes place there.

maybe some one hasnt told him (or her).

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. - Matthew 12:35-37

Is this speaking of just sinners or the whole world? Prove it by scripture.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. - Matthew 25:31-33

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. - Matthew 25:46

This whole account goes from the 31st verse to the 46th verse where Jesus is dividing the sheep and the goats. The sheep go to heaven and the goats go to hell.

Tell me, is this the Bema Seat or are there righteous people also going to be judged with the sinners?

[EricH]

The blood of Jesus has the power to wash away all sin, but it is up to the sinner to come to the blood of Christ to have that done, but your answer has nothing to do with this statement -

Actually it has everything to do with it. The blood of Christ was shed once and for all. It is not shed again and again each time we repent from our sins, and therefore its effectiveness is not limited by our sin. If, in our repentance from sin we cause the blood of Christ to be shed again and again, we would be bringing Him to open shame again and again (Heb. 6:6)

Still, your response to the what was being said was incorrect. I agree with what you are saying about the abilities of the blood of Christ, but hell is intended for those who die with sin on their souls.

And all sin is removed once a person appropriates Christs sacrifice. You are confusing justification with sanctification

[exrockstar]

So we have in the New Testament two things going on, entering and inheriting the Kingdom of heaven? I don't see that at all. I would have to agree with Det on that, it is splitting hairs; Paul was talking about salvation.

it's really not splitting hairs but hey....dismiss it if ya like.

point is that det originally had a disargeement about sinning sending a believer to hell.

all believers go to the bema seat but heaven or hell judgement is not what takes place there.

maybe some one hasnt told him (or her).

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. - Matthew 12:35-37

Is this speaking of just sinners or the whole world? Prove it by scripture.

Q: Is this speaking of just sinners or the whole world?

A: both really.

believer @ bema: 1 Cor 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. read that whole section aka "loss of rewards"

unbeliever @ white throne: Rev 20:12....The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."

[nebula]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

Deut -

You seem to have a good understanding of sin.

But do you likewise have an understanding about grace?

When Jesus died on the cross for the sin of mankind it did not automatically forgive everybody's sin. We have to make the choice to come to Jesus and accept Christianity.

I need to stop right here for a moment. I am bothered by your choice of words here - "and accept Christianity." Why did you word it this way?

When I came to Jesus, it was for Jesus, and I accepted His salvation and His Lordship - not a religion.

When we do this his blood washes us of our sins and we have access to his blood even after that if we sin again. This is the grace of God.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) - Ephesians 2:4-5

The difference between being and obedient Christian and a sinner is "sin". A sin is a transgression of the law of Christ and that law is defined in Rom 13:8-10.

No, you are missing what Paul says here:

Romans 3:19-31

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

It is not sins (evil deeds) that keep a person from God - it is the lack of faith in Jesus that keeps a person from God.

What God is looking for if for us to make a choice in our lives to serve him by doing what he wants according to the scriptures or if we would rather live our lives without him serving sin. Those who choose to give their lives to God will come to the grace of God, but those who choose a life of sin will receive a life in hell.

2 Chronicles 16:9 - "For the eyes of the LORD move to and fro throughout the earth that He may strongly support those whose heart is completely His.

If God is looking for non-sinners, none of us would make it into Heaven. Granted, those whose hearts are the LORD's will desire to please Him and make the effort not to sin.

But to claim that Heaven vs. Hell is about sin and not faith is out of touch with the heart of God.

[deut31:12]

I need to stop right here for a moment. I am bothered by your choice of words here - "and accept Christianity." Why did you word it this way?

When I came to Jesus, it was for Jesus, and I accepted His salvation and His Lordship - not a religion.

Christianity is not a religion. Denominationalism is a religion. Christianity is the divine nature that we live when we live our lives by the word of God.

It is not sins (evil deeds) that keep a person from God - it is the lack of faith in Jesus that keeps a person from God.

Not according to the scriptures.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. - Isaiah 59:2

If God is looking for non-sinners, none of us would make it into Heaven. Granted, those whose hearts are the LORD's will desire to please Him and make the effort not to sin.

But to claim that Heaven vs. Hell is about sin and not faith is out of touch with the heart of God.

You need to understand that, yes we do sin every day, but God has classified that the world is made up "sinners" and "Christians", also known as sheep and goats. The difference between the two is that sinners have chosen to keep a life of sin away from obedience to God and Christians have chosen to live their lives according to the word of God.

What God is looking for is this -

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. - John 4:23-24

If we are a true seeker to worship him in spirit and in truth our sins will be forgiven. If we refuse to give up our sins then we will die in our sins and go to hell.

I have given scriptures that point out that certain sins will keep us out of heaven. Believe them or not.

[Ovedya]

You need to understand that, yes we do sin every day, but God has classified that the world is made up "sinners" and "Christians", also known as sheep and goats.

That is incorrect. God has not "classified that the world is made up of...sheep and goats." This interpretation is off.

[deut31:12]

So we have in the New Testament two things going on, entering and inheriting the Kingdom of heaven? I don't see that at all. I would have to agree with Det on that, it is splitting hairs; Paul was talking about salvation.

it's really not splitting hairs but hey....dismiss it if ya like.

point is that det originally had a disargeement about sinning sending a believer to hell.

all believers go to the bema seat but heaven or hell judgement is not what takes place there.

maybe some one hasnt told him (or her).

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. - Matthew 12:35-37

Is this speaking of just sinners or the whole world? Prove it by scripture.

Q: Is this speaking of just sinners or the whole world?

A: both really.

believer @ bema: 1 Cor 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. read that whole section aka "loss of rewards"

unbeliever @ white throne: Rev 20:12....The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."

I have read it and that is a far stretch to say that there are two different thrones when I have given scriptures that say that the the sheep and the goats will be judged by what they did in this life and the goats go to hell for their lack of obedience, as well as others.

[Ovedya]

Christianity is not a religion. Denominationalism is a religion. Christianity is the divine nature that we live when we live our lives by the word of God.

No, Christianity is religion: "the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches." ~ Dictionary.com

"Denominationism" is a human philosophy, as indicated by "ism."

The divine nature by which we live our lives is called "Jesus."