softballgirl Posted May 10, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 102 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1990 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Gents, the idea that Jesus is NOT fully, wholly God, negates His salvific work. If He is not God, His blood does not avail, and we are yet in our sins. yep exactly and if Jesus were not God Him coming to this earth and dying didn't mean a stinking thing! We have NO hope. I refuse to believe that I believe Jesus was and is fully God! He didn't leave us any other option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 10, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2004 Exod 24 10Then Moses went up with Aaron, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted May 10, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1957 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 Thanks for the input Sam. Do you have an opinion on the John 1:1. The comment made on that interpretation. Steve In searcing for a Jesus that is less than God you will eventually end up with nothing. Many have walked that road and many are blind for their travels. Believing that Jesus is literally the Son of God and not God the Son...does not lessen the impact that He did for me. I just have trouble seeing this trinity doctrine issue. The other way of looking at it seems much more plausible and many scriptures also support it. It certainly seems more logical when you think it thru. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 10, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2004 Thanks for the input Sam. Do you have an opinion on the John 1:1. The comment made on that interpretation. Steve In searcing for a Jesus that is less than God you will eventually end up with nothing. Many have walked that road and many are blind for their travels. Believing that Jesus is literally the Son of God and not God the Son...does not lessen the impact that He did for me. I just have trouble seeing this trinity doctrine issue. The other way of looking at it seems much more plausible and many scriptures also support it. It certainly seems more logical when you think it thru. Blessings Russell, I have not seen these greek words for this passage that shows those differences you post. There are a lot of references that I do not have, however the english you put there is what I believe. You will get a lot of flack from that for it is one of the things the JW stress and a lot of people won't even listen to you for they have rejected the JW's and everything they stand for. I do agree we should reject a lot of the teaching of the JW's but not necessairly everything they or anyone says. Each thing should be looked at and decided on its own. I'd like to see whatever it is that the greek comes from to see if it would be agreeable to me. The reason I ask is, there are manuscripts that were made in Alexandria that I personally am suspect of. Gnostic religon was very strong there and it appears to me found it's way into some of the bible manuscripts. That's why I don't use any translation that states in john 3:16 that those who believe shall not perish instead of should not. I find I am spending too much time validating the scripture with other parts of the bible than I have to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted May 11, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1957 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 You will get a lot of flack from that for it is one of the things the JW stress and a lot of people won't even listen to you for they have rejected the JW's and everything they stand for. I do agree we should reject a lot of the teaching of the JW's but not necessairly everything they or anyone says. Each thing should be looked at and decided on its own. I am prepared to listen to anyone who puts forward a sensible argument. JW, SDA, Charismatic, Pentocostal, etc. Give credit where credit is due i say. Being in a religion doesn't save you...it is Jesus that saves you. It is your relationship with Him. YHWH gave us a mind to use to seek Him out. This is no easy task ...for there are many variables when considering how to interpret Scripture. We serve a God of order and I believe logic. There are reasons for all of YHWH decisons. He has a plan. He tells us about these plans...which remain constant throughout the Bible. Likewise when searching out the history of the Trinity doctrine many anomalies come to the surface. These i find disturbing and not in line with a God of order. History of the trinity doctrine should be able to be traced back before the New Testament. History tells us that it first surfaced after 300 AD...although many pagan gods had such truine deities well before Christ. This in itself should arouse suspicions. Now if you can allay my concerns on this issue i would appreciate it. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serotta Posted May 11, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1959 Share Posted May 11, 2004 IMHO, what is being argued here is beyond human understanding. But to use the "and the Word was A god" (my emphasis) is to open the door to the concept of polytheism. That simply is not the truth. There is one God. Our one God is made up of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mscoville Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 (edited) Hope I'm not bashing any verses to death you've already covered, but I think I've got a couple insights here, through the grace of God. (All scriptures are taken from the New American Standard translation.) Here are some scriptures that I Edited May 11, 2004 by mscoville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllforJesustheLord Posted May 11, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 557 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1976 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Notice we can not see God in His face, and live, remember Moses could not see Him, but we can see Jesus Christ's face, He is God, and yet He is less then God. Is The Word of God, God, or is the Word of God The Word, both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mscoville Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 When Jesus was on earth he took the form of a servant, you and me. He wouldn't have gotten very far on his mission if he had crispied everyone he came in contact with. ~ Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllforJesustheLord Posted May 11, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 557 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1976 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I think we need to remember both areas, The Word is less then The Father God, but also is The Father God, which comes from Him. I think both are important in understanding all the different teachings of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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