Trinity

[WayneB]

Thanks Wayne,

I am considering these words and others that have responded. Can I get you to reply to the previous post in regards to the origins of the Trinity doctrine and why this theme is not apparent in the Old testament.

Thanks

Yes, I would love to respond once we firmly establish the deity and sovereignty of Jesus Christ as God the Son. I thought it best to first focus on your question about the deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God and the Son of God as expressed by Jesus Himself and Scripture. The character and nature of the Trinity is a different and more complex subject...one that has been discussed on the boards many times before. We have to take this one step at a time my dear brother.

Bless you,

Wayne

btw...the Triune nature of our Creator-God is clearly revealed in the Old Testament. We'll discuss that when you are ready...whether God is One Person or Three Persons in One God-head. That is a new thread.

A good reference for starters: RBC Booklet: DO CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN THREE GODS?

[WayneB]

Peace all!

you know, all you Trinitarians would be better off refuting my questions I just posted. They prove my stance. along with the previously posted article refuting John 1:1.

MY OPEN CHALLENGE:

I challenge anyone to prove to me that Jesus is God. If they can do it I will become a Christian on the spot.

Peace,

~KB

Proverbs 1

1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:

2 for attaining wisdom and discipline;

for understanding words of insight;

3 for acquiring a disciplined and prudent life,

doing what is right and just and fair;

4 for giving prudence to the simple,

knowledge and discretion to the young-

5 let the wise listen and add to their learning,

and let the discerning get guidance-

6 for understanding proverbs and parables,

the sayings and riddles of the wise.

7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,

but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

Colossians Chapter 1

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[6] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation-- 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Colossians Chapter 2

18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

2 Peter Chapter 2

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Jude Chapter 1

3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4For certain men whose condemnation was written about[2] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

17But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." 19These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

20But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

God's Word pretty much sums it up. KB, I will pray for your salvation through Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Blessings,

Wayne

[WayneB]

Look, this is really simple:

If Jesus was GOD, then why did he ask for GOD's Forgiveness in Luke 23:34? Please visit How can Jesus be GOD Almighty when he asked for GOD's Forgiveness?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 10:18 Jesus said

[Ovedya]

I've been through the whole proof of the Trinity thing many times to ad nauseum (sp?).

What I always come back to is simply this: After over 2,000 years of trying, man has yet to arrive at a precise and accurate explanation and definition of the Trinity. Yet none can dispute that the Bible reveals the triunity of God. Therefore what it simply amounts to is, "The Scriptures reveal to me Trinity. Therefore, whether I can logically understand it or not, I will believe the revelation of the Scriptures."

[WayneB]

I've been through the whole proof of the Trinity thing many times to ad nauseum (sp?).

What I always come back to is simply this: After over 2,000 years of trying, man has yet to arrive at a precise and accurate explanation and definition of the Trinity. Yet none can dispute that the Bible reveals the triunity of God. Therefore what it simply amounts to is, "The Scriptures reveal to me Trinity. Therefore, whether I can logically understand it or not, I will believe the revelation of the Scriptures."

Once again Beau, well said brother!

[Russell]

MY OPEN CHALLENGE:

I challenge anyone to prove to me that Jesus is God.

[BobTriez]

Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.

Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him.

So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of, is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament.

Who ever said that it was God the Father who revealed Himself to Moses in the burning bush ? Jesus often referred to Himself as "I AM" ( sound familiar ? )....something to consider....

In His Service,

Bob

[other one]

Who ever said that it was God the Father who revealed Himself to Moses in the burning bush ? Jesus often referred to Himself as "I AM" ( sound familiar ? )....something to consider....

In His Service,

Bob

I thought that's what I said a line or two down....

[Russell]

Yes, I would love to respond once we firmly establish the deity and sovereignty of Jesus Christ as God the Son. 

The problem with these type of doctrinal agruments is that normally we come at it from our own personnal beliefs. That is, if you are a Trinity believer there is no way any Scripture will sway your beliefs...likewise if you are not a Trinity believer...neither will you be swayed by any Scripture.

It is similiar to the athiest who believes in evolution and the believer who believes in creation ...each has his own faith and to a large degree it is faith ...for none of us were there when it all began.

So this type of argument should be started on the basis that each of us...discard our own personnal opinions...which is near impossible if you are passionate about your point of view... and analyze the Bible critically in a systamatic and logical fashion...laying the different points of view on the table...left and right side.

Studying these carefully and being open to a variety of counsel. Then after much research...conclusions can be made.

I am endeavering to do this and it will take some time...but if those who wish to post can keep this in mind...a sensible argument can be made from a passionate subject.

Blessings

[Leonard]

KB: No matter how many times it is proven to you again and again, you would not believe. We have demonstrated it in this thread multiple times. Jesus Christ Himself proved it in His earthly life and Ministry. The Church has been proving this for almost 2000 years: You have Moses and the prophets; believe them. No, no, wait: YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE ALTHOUGH ONE CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD.