Outcry?

[senerhu]

QUOTE (senerhu @ May 11 2004, 11:05 PM)

QUOTE

[Guest charlie]

I understand exactly what you're saying Catsmeow, even if nobody else does. It's strange, I've always voted republican and been very conservative but since I've stopped supporting GWB and this "war", putting Christianity ahead of politics I've suddenly found myself being tagged a "blame America first liberal".

I used to wonder how anybody could have went along with Hitler or how the anti-christ would ever be able to get anybody to worship him. I don't wonder that anymore. Too many people have made politics their religion and they don't even realize it.

Personally, I think we need to pull out of Iraq, come home, regroup and get our own affairs in order. We can't "win" over there, we've already lost. Why drag it out so more people can die.

[other one]

I followed that stuff like flies on garbage and I realize there's a ton of conspiracy theories out there...some of which is probably true and some of which is disinformation. We're suseptible to believe everything we hear in the underground.

I distrust most of what I hear.

I understand Catsmeow, you were also at the time hearing about Militia groups and a lot of other things all mixed together; and I agree we should be skeptical about these things. However when it is unfolding right in front of our faces, it may not be prudent to simply disreguard it all.

I will stand with you and say, "We were wrong, it was wrong, is wrong and will bring nothing but harm to us to try and justify it.

Our difference is in believing why we did it, and exactly who is responsible for the decision to do it (or lack of oversite to let it happen).

I do know if we keep up things the way they are going we are headed for a time that none of us want to deal with, starting with our young people overseas and finishing up in our own streets and neighborhoods.

Lucifer is behind all this and unless we understand this we will not respond properly. This is much more than a band of radical musilm's, it is a spiritual war that we are loosing at the present time.

We have a very large group of people in this country and others that spend billions of dollars a year on magazine and computer porn. It should not be a surprise to any of us that this is happening, and to those of us who are watching not surprised that it is getting all the publicity it is getting.

The world is an evil place just like it was before the flood and it is hopefully about time to clean house again. I'm to the point of quoting the president you think so highly of..... "bring it on".......

[Work in Progress]

The people most outraged by this are the blame america crowd who would rather see the US defeated or humilated in order to defeat Bush, than see all the good that IS occuring in Iraq today because of Bushs actions.

Oh, Amen Senerhu. This is a wonderful opportunity for them.

Cat - love ya, take a deep breath. I hear what you are saying and you are right. It is NOT right what those 7 soldiers did, and you are SO RIGHT that it put a stain on all of America. Those soldiers jeopardized us all and it makes me angry.

However, I'm tired of America being a whipping boy because of this. These blame-America people can barely contain their glee that America and Bush look bad long enough to show their phony concern for those prisoners and their human rights. YOD is so very right in his other posts about atrocities we will NEVER see. Hypocrites!!

And, frankly, I don't believe they stole fruit. These are Iraqi's who are trying to kill our soldiers. That is what they are in prison for. Yes, we should be better than they are. But it is hard to have much sympathy for them because of what they are, and because of the way the America haters are using it.

I hear your emotion, I understand how you feel. JMO, but I think you may have bought into a little of the media garbage. Absolutely no offense - jmo- and you know I'm crazy about you. :il:

[Catsmeow]

catsmeow, these are not prisoners of war, they are terrorists...hello!

I'm wondering what happened to IQ's around here...do you watch the news at all?

I do. Daily. Do you get it? They're releasing over HALF of the prisoners because they are NOT terrorists...okay? Get it now?

Watch the news. Listen to your own president who admits there were innocent people who were in the prisons and SHOULDN'T have been there.

Should we be held accountable to abide by our own contract which we signed that agreed to decent treatment of prisoners according to the Geneva Convention or do you think Christians can and should break their contracts?

You answer that first...I doubt if you can.

Anyone who IS a Christian knows that your word is good or you're a liar. You either honor your contracts or you don't.

Our country has PROMISED (remember the word, 'promise')? to honor our commitment to abide by the Geneva Convention.

Countries that DON'T are tried as war criminals. Hello???? back at ya...

Try to consider the value of being a person of character and honoring your word.

Maybe, the problem in America is we havent' changed from when we broke our treaties with the Native Americans...and we still break our treaties.

We dishonor ourselves by promising that we will treat prisoners according to the rules of engagement then when we get bored, we torture prisoners, strip them naked, molest them...and photograph them in sexually explicit positions...and then....UNBELIEVABLY...we excuse this behavior and say, "Uh, well duh...they're bad guys...uh, duh..they're terrorists.."

Guess what? If they were the army would NOT have just released over HALF of them.

Do you even watch the news and stay informed? I do.

And what we did over there was WRONG...

Just as it would be wrong for them to do that to YOU...it's wrong. And where I come from, two wrongs...DON'T make a right. Period.

We are either Christians or we aren't.

If you cave in now, while we live in comfort and are well fed, it won't take much to test your willingness to abide by Luke Chapter 6 (Jesus tells us how to treat others...including enemies).

Problem is...I see a lot of people who break their word, abandon their contracts and agreements and think they have a better way to deal with the "bad guys" than to do it "God's way".

As for me and my house...we trust in God's way. Period.

I am ..for the record..ProBush, Pro-war...and Pro-military. I am, for the record, a Viet Nam Era veteran (stateside/1974-75) and my father served in Nam for a year's tour.

My whole FAMILY is military..including my husband. So, we are all very PRO MILITARY...but we also know that we, as military, abide by a code of conduct which honors us, even among our enemies. It's only when we become LIKE our enemies, that we lose ALL credibility.

[senerhu]

charlie

I've suddenly found myself being tagged a "blame America first liberal".

I apologize if I have initimated that to you or catsmeow. I don't see you as that. But there are plenty of politicians and citizens that deserve the label because of the years of ludicrous liberal behavior that demeans America in front of our Enemies.

btw, I don't believe I or many on this board would go along with hitler...

[Guest LadyC]

ok, cats, i'm sorry, but i can't even continue reading the rest of the new posts until i point a few things out.

1. nobody here is justifying what those soldiers did to the POWs..

2. if you think no american soldiers violated the geneva convention in WWII and every other war, you're sadly mistaken. it just wasn't publicized.

3. nobody here is justifying what those soldiers did to the POWs.

4. many of our own american soldiers have no moral compass either. sorry, but we live in a society that is trying to erase God from life. those without God have no moral compass.

5. nobody here is justifying what those soldiers did to the POWs.

i've only brought this point up a hundred times, as others have, and yet you seek to keep going back to that same theme.

putting something into perspective and being ticked off that the liberals and the media are politicizing this incident in order to push an agenda is NOT the same thing as justifying what those soldiers did.

being outraged that the barbarians over there are slaughtering innocent people, american and iraqi, and are now using the degradation of those soldiers as their excuse is NOT the same thing as justifying what those soldiers did.

oh, and have i mentioned? nobody here is justifying what those soldiers did to the POWs. nobody here supports what they did, (with the possible exception of yod! ) so will you please keep that in mind next time you post? :hug:

[senerhu]

catsmeow

catsmeow, these are not prisoners of war, they are terrorists...hello! 

I'm wondering what happened to IQ's around here...do you watch the news at all?

"The Pentagon has avoided formal Geneva Convention status because it doesn't want al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners to be able to hide behind 'name, rank and serial number.'

That's why, strictly speaking, the Iraqi insurgents being held at the Al Ghraib prison haven't been accorded Prisoner of War status.

If Americans want to suddenly change that, fine. But they should be mindful of the potential consequences.

Just last month Jordanian security forces foiled an al Qaeda weapons of mass destruction plot that could have killed up to 80,000 people. Jordanian TV ran videotaped confessions from the suspects, one of whom admitted he was trained in Iraq by Osama bin Laden's WMD specialist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

It's a fair bet that the Jordaniains didn't extract this information by adhering to the Geneva Convention protocols.

Zarqawi and his minions are still on the loose in Iraq, plotting to do the same to Americans at home as well as U.S. forces there.

If captured and interrogated, nothing would please them more than to be able to invoke the Geneva protocols - and promptly clam up about the next WMD plot they have in the works.

[Guest LadyC]

might i remind everyone that the geneva convention wasn't written just for american troops. ALL countries are required to abide by it during times of war. sadly enough, too many countries could care less about even giving a thought to the rules of warfare.

[Catsmeow]

WIP...it's not the media. I can see the pics just like you.

We are not like that. We don't behave like that. We are supposed to be a LIGHT in the darkness.

WIP, I'm telling you that they've interviewed several prisoners that were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some were stealing furniture and junk back when the war was just ending.

They kept them there in the prison in hopes to obtain information. FOX news showed how many were so intimidated they even made up stories of conspiracies in order to get food and better treatment.

Yeah, I know...there's some really bad dudes out there and they'll be dealt with but at least here, when people do wrong, they get a trial.

They don't. They're in the wrong place at the wrong time and get nailed. Not all of them are monsters.

I see women over there crying and saying, "We thought you were here to set us free. Why are you doing this?"

People who use pornography as a means of "interrogation" ..I want nothing to do with.

I cannot imagine anyone with the Holy Spirit of God in them thinking we can ever excuse pornography as a means of interrogation.

The bible says, "Do not beget evil for evil but beget evil for good."

WIP, I have hidden His Word in my heart that I might not sin against Him. My heart tells me this is an abomination and God is displeased with this behavior.

I consider all the discussion about the media and politics as just a distraction from the real issue.

People were violated and we did wrong.

When I sin, I just get on my knees and say, "No excuses...Father I sinned against You. Forgive me."

Why is that so incredibly hard for us to do?

As long as we do right, will God not be on our side and protect us? As long as we do wrong, how can we ask Him to protect us?