Half Lives Havn't Changed

[Guest Strservant]

Gotta question -

Psalm 19

4 . . . In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun,

5 which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavilion,

like a champion rejoicing to run his course.

6 It rises at one end of the heavens

and makes its circuit to the other;

nothing is hidden from its heat.

Ecclesiastes 1:5

The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.

Is anyone going to fight tooth and nail here that the sun orbits the Earth - because this is what the Bible says happens!?

I agree with Bob that this says the sun rises and sets. It does exactly that. I do see however, that none of the people who think of the word day as an age responded to my post. Would this be because it can't be answered? No one would be willing to say that the Sabbath that we are to hallow would be an age.

Respectfully,

Strservant

Edited May 18, 2004 by Strservant

[nebula]

Is anyone going to fight tooth and nail here that the sun orbits the Earth - because this is what we call it today too so we must think the sun goes around the earth just like the bible

including the US Navy http://mach.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_rstablew

sunrisesunset.com as well

That was really a poor attempt to take Gods word out of context.

Galileo was imprisoned for, among other things, claiming the Earth orbits the sun. These Scriptures were used in justification for his imprisonment and potential excommunication. According to the Church at that time, Galileo was guilty of heresy.

There are a number of people even to this day who actually do fight tooth and nail that because the Bible says, "the sun rises" and "the sun sets" and travels across the sky, that to claim anything other than the sun being in orbit around the Earth is anti-Scripture.

So, my point for bringing this up - if "sunrise" and "sunset" are not to be taken literally as the sun rising and the sun setting - as the people above claim - why must "day" be exclusively "24 hours?"

Why cannot the word day be a poetic-type of term, a representation of when an event had taken place? If "sunrise" is an illusionary term, why cannot "day" be so likewise?

And why cannot the "representative day" then be translated to the six working days and the Sabbath? Why does this mirroring have to go solely from "strict literal" to "strict literal?" After all, the many years of the Israelites wandering in the desert is remembered every year with - what - a week's span? - of living in tents (Feast of Booths). Thus, a long time span is remembered with a reflectionary short time span.

So, six "periods" of indeterminable time spans are translated in Genesis to "days," and these days are used in reflection in the Sabbath rememberance. Why is this not a feasible translation? :c:

[nebula]

I do see however, that none of the people who think of the word day as an age responded to my post. Would this be because it can't be answered? No one would be willing to say that the Sabbath that we are to hallow would be an age.

Just answered it.

[nebula]

I have a question for all the young earth creationists here on the boards, why do you feel that believing in a old earth is such a leap from the bible? After all the bible isn't meant to be a scientific text, it's a spiritual text and whether man was created instantly or evolved has no bearing on the existence of God.

Genesis is specific to a point but in scientific terms it's extrememly vague and in my view with good reason. The original audience from Genesis would have been utterly confused by a scientific account of events and it also would have served no real purpose.

If God knew this was going to be such a point of contention why didn't he just stamp a date on creation if it was a young earth? It would have been easy to do so.

I have a question for all the young earth creationists here on the boards, why do you feel that believing in a old earth is such a leap from the bible? After all the bible isn't meant to be a scientific text, it's a spiritual text and whether man was created instantly or evolved has no bearing on the existence of God.

But it tells a lot on the character of God. Adam brought death into the world ( Romans 5:12 ), not God....Old Earth evolution says that death created man - meaning in order for man to have become, death started life. The Bible says God created man. Man created death. Death is never good! 1 Corinthians 15:26 says - The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.. Death isn't Gods plan for creation - it never was.

Exodus 20:11 says 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.. What's the problem here ? Why is this simple statement so hard to believe ?

Something to ponder.

Carnivores can only be so by the fact that:

1) They have teeth that are adapted to grasping or stabing prey and to ripping meat off the animal,

2) They have the proper stomach enzymes for digesting meat,

3) They are other physical adaptation as well as behavioral adaptations for being able to hunt prey.

Likewise, animals that are prey have their own adaptations for escaping predation.

So, how and when did predators become predators? Sure, it is easy to say that either after the Fall or after the Flood (when the Lord told Noah to eat meat) teh curse had spread to the animals, causing some to become hunters. But how did this happen? What would cause these animals to change their diets? And where did their adaptations come from? Is it possible that God changed them? If not, how else could they have changes so?

[Guest Strservant]

I do see however, that none of the people who think of the word day as an age  responded to my post.  Would this be because it can't be answered?  No one would be willing to say that the Sabbath that we are to hallow would be an age.

Just answered it.

Nebula,

Thank you for your reply. May I say that when I read Scripture I try to read what the Scriptures are saying. I think that is one of the reasons people have come to think the Bible is so hard to understand. Humankind has added all their interpretations to the simple words placed in Scripture. Respectfully, I would say that you seem to have to assume quite a bit if you believe the interpretation you have put forth. I once again say that the age of the earth itself may be much older then the creation account because it says it was formless and void. However, there are problems with ages for days. Plant life was created on the third day and the sun not until the fourth. Plants cannot survive without sunlight, especially not an age. I believfe it is so much simpler to believe when God said to hallow a day that He meant a day that represented the day He rested from creation. Ultimately, I know your posts to be insightful and Biblical sound and know no matter what the truth is concerning this topic we are brothers in Christ. Sometimes I come off a bit sharper than I mean to and if I have I do apoligize.

Respectfully,

Strservant

[Guest mscoville]

Cerran,

I have a question for all the young earth creationists here on the boards, why do you feel that believing in a old earth is such a leap from the bible? After all the bible isn't meant to be a scientific text, it's a spiritual text and whether man was created instantly or evolved has no bearing on the existence of God.

Why do you persist with questions like this, demanding answers, when you won't answer the questions that have been asked of you? I've seen people answer the very questions you asked here many times in talking to you. I've asked questions of you concerning your understanding of these issues many times. I think, at least 5 times on different threads and I've not gotten an answer. I'm going to give you the best biblical answer I can to your questions, and I expect after the amount of time you've spent thinking about this, that you'll give me your best biblical response. Not from your science text book. I hope you realize I'm telling you this because I believe it to be true and you're my brother, because I love you.

The Bible says in the Beginning God Created the Heavens and the Earth (Gen. 1:1). There is no context there for the total age of the Earth. However, with that we begin Creation Week. God creates the Heavens and the Earth and light on that first day. And he tells us, there was morning and evening the first day (Gen 1:5). That refers to the twenty four hour day and evening day that you and I know so well. Not a millennium as our brother Yod will state. We know this because of the "CONTEXT" of day and evening the first day. I challenge any old earth creationist to show me another example in Genesis, where day is meant to mean a long age and yet in context reads as a single 24 hour day.

The days continue from there. A week transpires, culminating in the Creation of Man in Gods image on the 6th day (Gen. 1:31).

Then we learn about Adam and Eve and we see that after Adam and Eve used their free will to bring sin into the world, they are no longer allowed to "reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." (Gen. 3:22)

We brought upon ourselves the curse of God. Before that time, death did not exist. We were created to be in a love relationship with our God and live with him as he lives, eternally.

Now if this is not true, if Adam did not exist (which I assume he did not in the evolutionary framework) why would Paul say "Therefore just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men,"(Romans 5:12) or "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous". (Romans 5:19) Why would Paul say that? Did Paul just not understand that Adam and Eve were only a story? Then why isn't Jesus just a story? Jesus' death, the death of a single man was a representation of the death brought into the world by Adam's sin. Literally, Jesus was real as was Adam.

Then there is the issue of the genealogies, Genesis 5 etc.. If you follow them and do the math, starting with Adam and ending at Christ through the genealogies in the New Testament you get a pretty good rough estimate about how long man has been on the planet, of course then you have to add the 5 extra days when man wasn

[BobTriez]

I realize this is a cut and paste from another thread - but since I wrote it, it's probably ok....

1. Adam was the first man ( 1 Cor 15:45 ) - Yes ?

2. Jesus created the Earth ( Colossians 1:16 ) - Yes ?

Since He created it, He should know what took place - right ?

3. Jesus said that at the beginning of creation man and woman were created

Mark 10

6 "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female"

So we know that Jesus created the Earth and at the beginning of creation, He made them male and female ( see also Matthew 19:4 ) and we know that Adam was the first man.

We also know that through Adam, all sin entered the Earth and as a result of this sin, death entered the Earth ( Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 ). Ergo - nothing died prior to Adam's sin. A Christian can put reliable faith now that anything that is purported to have died prior to Adam's fall is un Biblical....now all we need to do is figure out how long ago Adam was. The Bible contains a genealogical record from Adam to Jesus, and specifies the age of each man at the time he had his first son. Our existing calendar is associated with the life of Jesus (BC/AD), therefore, the age of our world can be determined by adding the ages-up the ages in this lineage. According to the Biblical chronology the earth is almost exactly 6000 years old, and 4500 years ago the flood completely destroyed all terrestrial life except those saved by God through his instructions to Noah.

It's all there folks, go look for yourself. I know it takes faith; I'm not denying that at all. I trusted in science myself until I looked into the matter and saw that they simply are wrong. Either the Bible is wrong or scientists are wrong....there's no other way. Believe whom you want to....for me, I choose the Bible.

Did you know that Adam and Noah's father were alive for 56 years together ?

Did you know that Noah's son Shem lived long enough to know Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ?

All you need to do is figure the years out ( which are provided for us )....that means Abraham could potentially have talked to Shem who's grandfather could have spoken with Adam ? Amazing ( IMHO )....that means pre-fall stories could have been told to Abraham via only 3rd person contact ? Think about it - if Abraham talked to Shem and Shem's grandpa spoke with Adam....some pretty cool stories I'll bet !

My point ? it's all in the Bible....read for yourself.

I just don't see any other way to look at this. as I've said before, I used to believe in day-age theory and thought the Earth was 4.5 billion or what ever they claim it is. But after objectively looking at the verses above, it became clear that if man was there from the beginning of creation, and man brought death into the world - then no matter what science says, by faith in the Bible, God must be telling the truth that nothing dies before Adam's sin. Adam was there at the beginning - ergo, the Earth simply isn't as old as some like to believe.

Something to ponder -

Often I hear "God is an orderly God and wouldn't trick us by making the Earth appear old and really be young ". First, I think the Earth looks young, but if you think it looks old - consider who might be doing the tricking....I'll give you a clue - not God, and the one who was in Eden until iniquity was found in him ( Ezekiel 28 ). Yep, the big liar himself...you know, he witnessed the creation and saw how things were put together. He also has unbelievable powers...don't you think if he tricked Eve & Adam he can trick us today ? Think about it....hard. He'll do anything and I mean anything to deceive us.

Eph 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

1 Peter 5:8

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Think hard & long....look at the evidence in the Bible and put it all together....you'll see what I mean.

In His service,

Bob

Edited May 18, 2004 by BobTriez

[Guest Traffic Demon]

BobTriez - "Either the Bible is wrong or scientists are wrong....there's no other way."

Or your interpretation of the Bible is wrong. That you do not recognize a possibility does not mean it doesn't exist.

Edited May 19, 2004 by Dr. Luke

[AllforJesustheLord]

Traffix demon are you just here to bring confusion, and hate, may ELoHeeM(God) through YaHuSHia MeSHiaCH(Jesus Christ) save your soul. So it is.

[Guest arkon]

BobTriez - "Either the Bible is wrong or scientists are wrong....there's no other way."

Or your interpretation of the Bible is wrong. That you do not recognize a possibility does not mean it doesn't exist.

This is sooooo stereotypical of evolutionists. (Please note that I used the label evolutionist....this is not to be confused with actual scientists ... the ones who use the scientific method...instead of faith)

How about this. His interpretation of the bible is correct. God did not make the bible complicated.

YOUR interpretation of the facts is what is wrong. Fossils are evidence of Noahs flood and the dispertion during pelegs day (see the Noah babel peleg thread on this forum) . The layers of earth are from the same. The nonconformities are a result of the division during pelegs day.