The contradiction of Noah and the Ark

[doverfish]

Just by reading the thread title, I'm guessing some of you who have engaged in apologetics with non-Christians might already be trying to formulate answers to the 2-pair/7-pair anomaly in Genesis 6 and 7. In reality, this is not a contradiction, and that is not what this thread is about. For the record, this is the passage in question:

You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him. ~ Genesis 6:19-7:5

We all know the story. God sends the flood to destry the animals. Non-Christians try to show up a "contradiction" in these verse by contrasting 6:19, which states "two of all living creatures" with the very next sentence in 7:2 where it says "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal..... and two of every kind of unclean animal" (the "contradiction" apparently being that God only mentioned 2 pairs in the first, but a paragraph later mentioned seven pairs). I always find this one of the most laughable "contradictions" in the whole of non-Christian propaganda. It's a simple matter that the second section is expanding on God's comments in the first.

But what floors me every single time I read this (it's usually quoted verbatim from such sites as "evilbible.com", which is somehow less biased than apologetics sites according to the non-believers - oh, and the biggest hoot - when we quote apologetics sites, we're "parroting" dogma and they're quoting is "logical expression" ).... but I digress. What floors me is that they miss a much BIGGER CONTRADICTION that should be shouting out at anyone who knows Old Testament history. The fact that they miss it out on this very simple piece of history in every single list of "Bible Contradictions" just shows how little study the compilers actually put into making up those lists (I wouldn't be surprised if they used a computer program to search for key-words and phrases, found a match that seemed a little off, and then just whacked it in the list)....

Anyhow, that contradiction that I see in this passage is - The Levitical Laws on Clean and Unclean foods were not written until generations after Noah existed. God commanding Noah to bring "seven pairs of clean animals" (presumably for eating) is not something that would ever have been understood by Noah, since that law wasn't created till well after the revelation at Mt Sinai, generations after Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and well into Moses' era (skipping sundry generations in between).

There are two clear answers I can think of to answer this question. 1- either Moses wrote it and extrapolated his own views from Leviticus (which would have been written in his time) to make the story more appealing and acceptable to the Israelites who would later read it under the Law, or 2- there was already a Covenant in existence with Noah (or perhaps before Noah) - however, this second theory suffers from the fact that there is a complete lack of historical or biblical evidence for such a covenant ever existing.

This post, I guess is half-rant/half-question - half ranting at what I call "non-Christian apologetics" which are as dishonest as they claim ours to be *though sometimes Christians do stretch the truth to make their view more appealing - but that's a different argument*, and it's half-question - what are your thoughts on the apparent time-line conundrum. If the Covenant at Sinai did not exist in Noah's age, then why are healthy eating laws from that Covenant given to Noah as he brought the animals onto the ark?

Any and all thoughts and views appreciated

~ Paranoid Android

Why can't the explanation just be that Moses described the events in the words of his time in terms he understood? Why does everyone have to resolve this with whether the Law existed in some form before Noah? It's ridiculous! Let's say Moses is being inspired (however that happened) and he is writting down this story of Noah. He sees the animals (in his mind) marching into the ark, and they are all "clean" animals. They are also the animals God told Noah to get. So he writes "God commanded 2 of every clean animal". Does that not make sense? It protects verbal inspiration and eliminates any so-called contradiction. People REALLY overthink this stuff.

[givennewname]

Keep in mind that the seven animals were not for eating but strictly for sacrifice. It wasn't until after the flood that God even allowed man to eat meat.

Look to Genesis 9 for the allowance to eat meat after the flood.

Further, there was a covenant established between God and Adam. It was for more than just clothing that God killed the two animals after the fall. He was showing that there was no remission of sins without the shedding of blood.

The generations from Adam to Noah were vegetarians anyway so the clean animals were not for human consumption.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food:

Gen 1:30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for food: and it was so.

It was only after coming out of the Ark that God added meat to human's diet..

Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered.

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all.

Therefore, the clean animals were meant for sacrifices..

[givennewname]

I think it is quite an extraordinary stretch to classify this as a contradiction.

I'm not meaning to imply it is a "contradiction". I believe the Bible is the perfect, inspired, and incontravertable words of God (inerrant, if you will). I was just saying that from a purely non-Christian view, this historical discrepency is a bigger contradiction than anything they could come up with the general lists they do (and certainly far less farcical than the Gen6:19/7:2 quote that pops up on non-Christian apologetics sites). It's just that none of them (or at least very few of them - by that, I mean I have yet to see any) have the knowledge to actually point this out, which should be on any mandatory list of "contradictions" that some non-Christians would like to come up with.

As for the rest of your post, thanks for sharing. i understand your point of view, and you make a good point, particularly about Adam and Eve's clothing (and the Rabbinic view of this). My own view is a little more.... unorthodox... but for the time being, I don't want to derail the question, so I do thank you for your input, and it does make sense, at least to a certain extent.

All the best,

Paul in Romans say there are two sets of law...

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 1:19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:

One type of Laws of God is universally revealed.. the moral law which exist in nature.. every human knows its wrong to kill etc, reflected in the guilt that Cain felt after murdering Abel, his conscience bugged him. If there is no such law, then Cain could plead ignorance and God would not be able to punish him. As if there is no known law, there is no sin, this is the point that Paul makes in Romans, that those who do not know of the existence of the Mosaic law is still without excuse as God is revealed in nature and they should have their conscience to guide them.

The other is the revealed Law through Moses at Sinai.. some of which applied specifically to Israel, some of which have been fulfilled in Jesus, therefore no longer applied after Jesus's sacrifice on the cross......

[Guest shiloh357]

Just by reading the thread title, I'm guessing some of you who have engaged in apologetics with non-Christians might already be trying to formulate answers to the 2-pair/7-pair anomaly in Genesis 6 and 7. In reality, this is not a contradiction, and that is not what this thread is about. For the record, this is the passage in question:

You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him. ~ Genesis 6:19-7:5

We all know the story. God sends the flood to destry the animals. Non-Christians try to show up a "contradiction" in these verse by contrasting 6:19, which states "two of all living creatures" with the very next sentence in 7:2 where it says "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal..... and two of every kind of unclean animal" (the "contradiction" apparently being that God only mentioned 2 pairs in the first, but a paragraph later mentioned seven pairs). I always find this one of the most laughable "contradictions" in the whole of non-Christian propaganda. It's a simple matter that the second section is expanding on God's comments in the first.

But what floors me every single time I read this (it's usually quoted verbatim from such sites as "evilbible.com", which is somehow less biased than apologetics sites according to the non-believers - oh, and the biggest hoot - when we quote apologetics sites, we're "parroting" dogma and they're quoting is "logical expression" ).... but I digress. What floors me is that they miss a much BIGGER CONTRADICTION that should be shouting out at anyone who knows Old Testament history. The fact that they miss it out on this very simple piece of history in every single list of "Bible Contradictions" just shows how little study the compilers actually put into making up those lists (I wouldn't be surprised if they used a computer program to search for key-words and phrases, found a match that seemed a little off, and then just whacked it in the list)....

Anyhow, that contradiction that I see in this passage is - The Levitical Laws on Clean and Unclean foods were not written until generations after Noah existed. God commanding Noah to bring "seven pairs of clean animals" (presumably for eating) is not something that would ever have been understood by Noah, since that law wasn't created till well after the revelation at Mt Sinai, generations after Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and well into Moses' era (skipping sundry generations in between).

There are two clear answers I can think of to answer this question. 1- either Moses wrote it and extrapolated his own views from Leviticus (which would have been written in his time) to make the story more appealing and acceptable to the Israelites who would later read it under the Law, or 2- there was already a Covenant in existence with Noah (or perhaps before Noah) - however, this second theory suffers from the fact that there is a complete lack of historical or biblical evidence for such a covenant ever existing.

This post, I guess is half-rant/half-question - half ranting at what I call "non-Christian apologetics" which are as dishonest as they claim ours to be *though sometimes Christians do stretch the truth to make their view more appealing - but that's a different argument*, and it's half-question - what are your thoughts on the apparent time-line conundrum. If the Covenant at Sinai did not exist in Noah's age, then why are healthy eating laws from that Covenant given to Noah as he brought the animals onto the ark?

Any and all thoughts and views appreciated

~ Paranoid Android

Why can't the explanation just be that Moses described the events in the words of his time in terms he understood? Why does everyone have to resolve this with whether the Law existed in some form before Noah? It's ridiculous! Let's say Moses is being inspired (however that happened) and he is writting down this story of Noah. He sees the animals (in his mind) marching into the ark, and they are all "clean" animals. They are also the animals God told Noah to get. So he writes "God commanded 2 of every clean animal". Does that not make sense? It protects verbal inspiration and eliminates any so-called contradiction. People REALLY overthink this stuff.

Well, actually God commanded 7 pairs of every clean animal. Understanding that the law exited before Noah is not at all ridiculous. Noah was the one righteousness man on the earth. How do we know? There was a standard to measure him against. That is what law is. It is a standard.