other one Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 600 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,391 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,141 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2008 Yea; other one I can see where your coming from on this, Once saved always saved, have you every read the amplified version of John 3:16, that puts a new spin on it. John 3:16 reads: 16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ( unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. This shows that believing in Christ is more than just lip service. I know that this is a very decent version to use because of the original Greek word for Believes (pisteuĊ)which defines the word as: to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ) :- believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. First thing I do when I study is pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, for He guides unto all truth. I use the Greek and Hebrew and the scripture as a set of checks and balances to compliment each other. For example I will take all the scripture concerning a subject I'm studying. Then i will look at the greek or hebrew for that word, it's all got to agree, what ever does not agree with the majority I throw it out. I'll give you an example; on my website there is a video I did on Jehovah's witness under the micro-scope, I think that was a couple of weeks ago, anyways; the Jehovah's witnesses use the greek Septuagint (LXX) In Isaiah 9:6 to build their case that Jesus is not God; the Septuagint LXX in this chapter and verse use the word (agglelov) or transliterated (Aggelos) or in the english (Angel or messenger) for the word God. However in Hebrews 1:4-6; it reads: 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. KJV The Greek Septuagint LXX is in clear countradiction to Hebrews 1:4-6; so I wouldn't use that manuscript for my conclusion. In His service Spiritman There is one place in the Bible that comes to mind that does very distinctly say that you shall/will be saved, and that is in Romans. Says that you have to believe that the Father raised Him from the dead, and that one must confess that Jesus is their Lord. Confessing the Lordship of Jesus is a major step from (so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) When one makes Him their Lord, that puts one in the position of following "All" that he has told us to do. It still bothers me that John is using the shall word still referring to believing. The way I see it is that the Father's love and giving of the life of His only begotten Son makes it possible for us to be spared the eternity we deserve. However we ourselves must make Jesus our Lord for this to be sure. I am sooooo against using the qualification of salvation as to believing. Jesus tells us of a group of people who even cast out demons and heal people and do miracles but he still does not claim to know them because they are not following his teachings and are doing evil. If the people believed enough to do miracles and cast out demonic powers it seems to me that logically they really must believe...... there is more to it than that. I don't mean to get into the works thing because we can't do anything to be saved.... but saved people are expected to live up to high standards if they are following the teachings of Jesus. If one confesses Chirst as Lord and does not do what he teaches he just condemns him/herself as a liar and not a born again person. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritman Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Guess deep down I wonder how much it really matters. Do we really need to know the exact wording of every single text? Can we without knowing Greek and Hebrew? If the heart is right, isnt it the Spirit of the Word anyway? The holy spirit does indeed guide one to the truth; however sometimes it's necessay to give someone who's going the wrong direction a little more than just The Spirit told me. I talk to some people who claim to be christians on line (well maybe they in their hearts truely believe that they are Chrisitans, but anyway, they don't believe in gifts of the spirit for today, but they are intelligent people. most people know the rules for language; hebrew and greek have this in common with the english; if you have two words that are the same; but used in a different context, the context determines the correct definition; along with the fact, that the meaning we have come up with cannot contradict not even one scripture. This is called hermnutics (science of Biblical intepretation). For example Let's take the word Run. First context sentence reads: I have a Run in my stocking. Second context reads: Let's put on our tennis shoes and go for a Run. Same word used in a different context. If someone tells me that they have a run in their stocking; I don't interpret them as saying that they want to go jogging. And If someone says Let's put on our tennis shoes; I know their not talking about a tare in their stockings. I like what you're saying, however, the correct spelling is "Hermaneutics", and its not just Biblical interpretation, but any literary interpretation. Regardless, what you're saying is correct. If we read in Revelation about "stars falling from the sky", literally interpreted, we would think of comets flying through our atmosphere and causing destruction everywhere. Yet, if we read it correctly, and use the science of Hermaneutics to find out what the Jews in that day would have heard, we find that historically the Roman garrison would light their arrows on fire, and during a night battle, would look like millions of stars falling from the sky. So we see that John is not describing a cataclysmic solar event, but he is describing war in such a way that the gravity of the situation can be easily seen by his origional audience. Just F.Y.I., the first rule of hermaneutics states: A text can only mean what it meant to it's origional audience. Thus we cannot take any liberty in interpreting the Bible, nor can we just take our pastors word for it. Research it, test it, see what major Biblical scholars have to say, before just accepting it. This, in turn, makes "quiet time" bible reading a very dangerous psychological pitfall. If we engrain ourselves to believe that the Spirit is leading us to believe one thing about a Biblical text, when in reality it means nothing of the sort, we merely stand to create false hopes and high expectations, ones which will be next to impossible to reach. Thank you for the spelling correction. I'll try and remember not to hit an o on the type writer when I should have hit a p. And your correct concerning taking into the account of the ways of the culture at the time. I do this already thank you though. I don't know what your getting at however about thinking the spirit leads us comment I know that when the Holy Spirit leads me to a conclusion, it is always backed by the scripture. I never teach anything Unless I check the scriptures first, to confirm it. And if the scripture confirms it it's the truth. In his service Spiritman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 How the Bible is translated only matters if you want to know the truth. I would hope that is an important detail??? All "spirits" are to be judged by the Word...even if it is called "holy spirit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritman Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted July 9, 2008 How the Bible is translated only matters if you want to know the truth. I would hope that is an important detail??? All "spirits" are to be judged by the Word...even if it is called "holy spirit" Yes; yod, you have spoken the truth. How's things in Texas? I miss my home town of Corpus Christi, I wish I had never left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritman Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Eternal sunshine, and YOD, Thank you for your wonderful advise, it's nice to know that there are people on this board I can actually relate to. In Love Spiritman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritman Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Guess deep down I wonder how much it really matters. Do we really need to know the exact wording of every single text? Can we without knowing Greek and Hebrew? If the heart is right, isnt it the Spirit of the Word anyway? The holy spirit does indeed guide one to the truth; however sometimes it's necessay to give someone who's going the wrong direction a little more than just The Spirit told me. I talk to some people who claim to be christians on line (well maybe they in their hearts truely believe that they are Chrisitans, but anyway, they don't believe in gifts of the spirit for today, but they are intelligent people. most people know the rules for language; hebrew and greek have this in common with the english; if you have two words that are the same; but used in a different context, the context determines the correct definition; along with the fact, that the meaning we have come up with cannot contradict not even one scripture. This is called hermnutics (science of Biblical intepretation). For example Let's take the word Run. First context sentence reads: I have a Run in my stocking. Second context reads: Let's put on our tennis shoes and go for a Run. Same word used in a different context. If someone tells me that they have a run in their stocking; I don't interpret them as saying that they want to go jogging. And If someone says Let's put on our tennis shoes; I know their not talking about a tare in their stockings. ...followed of course by the inevitable discussion of stockings versus shoes. We'll hear from the stockings-only crowd and the shoes-only crowd and then the ecumenicals will chime in with does it really matter whether we wear stockings or shoes when we run, all the while blithely ignoring the fact that the real issue is that we are dealing with two different definitions of the word "run." Ah, language. Hey ruf, I'm just glad no one has accused me of wearing women's clothing yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialSaint Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2008 Do you think it matters what translation of the Bible a person uses? If so which one, and why - what makes it better? Some are die hard KJV fans, others of the NIV - some think all but the KJV is a perversion. Personally I can see how the newer translations though lacking in some ways, may actually be more readable promoting better biblical literacy Any thoughts? The only one I ever used was the KJV. There's a saying I once heard a country preacher use. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" I guess those who plead for better translations have to claim that the KJV is "broke." But I think it's a pretty good rendering of the Greek and Hebrew text. Peace & Health, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 13, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2008 Do you think it matters what translation of the Bible a person uses? If so which one, and why - what makes it better? Some are die hard KJV fans, others of the NIV - some think all but the KJV is a perversion. Personally I can see how the newer translations though lacking in some ways, may actually be more readable promoting better biblical literacy Any thoughts? I've read the KJV study Bible and am now going through the NLV study Bible. I think it's better to read different versions and to make sure they're study Bible's with lots of footnotes, explanations etc. The reason is that I seem to get different things from different Bibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lovinghim4ever Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 How the Bible is translated only matters if you want to know the truth. I would hope that is an important detail??? All "spirits" are to be judged by the Word...even if it is called "holy spirit" Yep, that's my belief too! Good response yod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victory777 Posted July 13, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 213 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/30/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/06/1949 Share Posted July 13, 2008 i have loads but at the moment im useing the complete Jewish bible its an English translation by david h stern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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