The purpose driven church

[Only4Him777]

Mat 16:25 "Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self."

1Cor 10:12b "Forget about self-confidence; it's useless. Cultivate God-confidence"

In case you might wonder what the Bible ACTUALLY says:

Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

1Cr 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

First off, who is MY way??? If this is what Rick Warren says in his book... YIKES! Where in the Bible does it say to "find yourself"???

The two WANNA-BE verses that you quoted contradict themselves as stated. One says you should basically focus on YOURSELF the other says to forget about self-confidence.

Remember:

Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.

Rick Warren's focus seems to be on entertaining the secular view, he seems to want to blend in with the times (as they are a changin!). That could not be farther from the truth of God!!!

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Be careful brothers and sisters to not be blinded by the "false light" of the wolf!

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

These are the days that are ripe for the AC!

YSIC,

Alison :hug:

[Guest LCPGUY]

Alison, that was a great post!

So many false teachers today rely on personality, positive thinking, etc., that is non-biblical. They twist the scriptures and throw in flowery words of their own to deceive the flock. Woe unto them.

All this positive thinking and rah rah rah attitude may sound great to most folks but it sure isn't biblical.

2TIM 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, (4) and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

When i hear how Rick preaches only positive topics from the pulpit and minimizes biblical teaching so as not to make any uncomfortable, I wonder. Something isn't right here.

Be careful and discerning my friends...

Bro John

[Only4Him777]

Amen to that brother John!

Bradley's [WatchingForJesus] brother is a pastor... his churches philosophy is to stay away from contriversial subject so as not to cause offense... Hmmmm!!! His church is not one of those "megachurches" either...

We have to be careful in all churches, even the one's we may think are ok just because they aren't "all showy" as megachurches tend to be.

YSIC,

Alison :hug:

[Only4Him777]

To add... His brother's church is not an "all showy megachurch" YET. But they too are following the Purpose Driven philosophies, so time will tell.

YSIC,

Alison :hug:

[serotta]

Icpguy wrote:

When i hear how Rick preaches only positive topics from the pulpit and minimizes biblical teaching so as not to make any uncomfortable, I wonder. Something isn't right here.

Be careful and discerning my friends...

Bro John

And from whom have you hear this? Have you witnessed this first hand? If not I don't think you should be perpetuating something that may not be true.

In 40 chapters in PDL, Rick Warren references 1000's of Bible verses. He devotes a chapter to the importance of regular bible study, of journalling your meditation on scripture, and memorizing scripture.

I am on my third read through PDL, and Rick Warren sure seems like a straight-shooting, "tell it like it is" preacher to me.

Allison, "My way" is a reference to Christ, who is speaking these words if you look at the verse in context. For those that don't know, The Message is a paraphrase from Pastor Eugene Peterson.

Editted to add:

Also Icpguy, when I hear people tearing down pastors for being "too positive" I wonder. Is the gospel of Jesus Christ not "the Good News"? From what I have read and heard from Rick Warren, he does not shy away from calling a sin a sin (and PDL has 2-3 chapters on dealing with temptation). But when it comes to preaching the gospel, how can that NOT be positive?

Edited May 19, 2004 by serotta

[WatchingForJesus]

Icpguy wrote:

When i hear how Rick preaches only positive topics from the pulpit and minimizes biblical teaching so as not to make any uncomfortable, I wonder. Something isn't right here.

Be careful and discerning my friends...

Bro John

And from whom have you hear this? Have you witnessed this first hand? If not I don't think you should be perpetuating something that may not be true.

In 40 chapters in PDL, Rick Warren references 1000's of Bible verses. He devotes a chapter to the importance of regular bible study, of journalling your meditation on scripture, and memorizing scripture.

I am on my third read through PDL, and Rick Warren sure seems like a straight-shooting, "tell it like it is" preacher to me.

Allison, "My way" is a reference to Christ, who is speaking these words if you look at the verse in context. For those that don't know, The Message is a paraphrase from Pastor Eugene Peterson.

serotta,

I can't speak for John (lcpguy), but I can speak for myself. I have heard it first hand from my brother, who has been to Rick Warren's church.

My brother (an assitant pastor) is sold out on this guy! As, my darling wife, Alison (Only4Him777), pointed out, my brothers church now stays away from preaching the gospel truth, because it is too controversial and it offends too many people.

Instead, they are more in favor of preaching (if you can call it that) on managing your money, managing your marriage, and managing your life. Topics that "tickle the ears", because that will bring in more people to the church. He says, that once these people are in the church, than you have the opportunity to share the gospel with them.

But ------ If the gospel is not being preached, when are these people going to hear the truth? So many people are going to church, nowdays, to "feel good" about themselves, especially since 9/11 and yet, they have no idea, that they are not saved.

Rick Warren, is promoting this and getting more and more churches focused on growth, by "blending" in to the world and becoming more "worldly", so that you can attract more "unchurched" people into their congregation. As, pointed out already in this thread, we are not to be of this world.

I'm sorry, but if Rick is using out right "garbage" for references to scripture, I don't care if he makes a 1,000,000 references in his book. If he is referencing, paraphrases, he is NOT REFERECING SCRIPTURE.

YBIC,

Bradley

[serotta]

watchingforJesus said:

If he is referencing, paraphrases, he is NOT REFERECING SCRIPTURE.

So there is never a valid reason for using a paraphrase? I disagree with that. "The Good News" bible, "The Message" bible, etc. do have their place.

And I still challenge anyone to point out how PDL does not preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Edited May 19, 2004 by serotta

[Guest smuse]

Dave Hunt of The Berean Call writes in his article 'The Vanishing Gospel' concerning Rick Warren and paraphrasing:

Warren does offer much sound advice in The Purpose Driven Church and The Purpose Driven Life. Commendably, he attempts to support most points with "nearly a thousand quotations from Scripture" (Life, p. 325). But the "scriptures" he quotes are speculative paraphrases such as The Message (see TBC Q&A Oct.

[Only4Him777]

Amen to that Steve!!!

YSIC,

Alison :hug:

[Guest LCPGUY]

This is really beginning to sound like a different Gospel to me. Subtle - you bet, but not the Truth. Just enough to distort scripture and the True Jesus. But then, most folks fall hard for that "feel good" preachin'.

Gal 1:6-11

6 I marvel that you so soon are being moved away from Him who called you into the grace of Christ, to another gospel,

7 which is not another, but some are troubling you, and desiring to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you beside what we preached to you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.

In His Love,

Bro John