The purpose driven church

[tsth]

Dear steve,

Have I offended you in some manner? I really do not want to reply back to you in like manner, and I am truly sorry that we are seemingly at odds? I don't intend to respond in order to perpetuate any hard feelings. So please forgive me, if I hold off on any replies back at this point.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest LCPGUY]

ok, i've just read four pages in this thread.... i've never read anything in the purpose driven series, and from what i'm reading in this thread, there seems to be a big controversy over whether this guy really preaches the hardcore truth or whether he preaches a watered down version.

and now i'm curious.

so for those who have studied the series, can you please just answer a few questions so i can skip the remaining two pages of debate?

what does rick warren teach, preach, or write about regarding

1. homosexuality

2. consequence of sin

3. spiritual warfare (the supernatural realm on both sides... demonic and holy?)

4. premarital sex

5. modesty in appearance

6. spousal submission

7. tithing

8. witnessing

9. family discipline

10. repentance

please provide direct quotes from the PDL series if possible.

i'm not trying to be contentious, i just think that if we all know WHAT the guy is preaching, we can come to a quicker discernment about him than debating the reviews of other websites. i for one am not interested as much in what those websites think of him, i want to know what i should think of him.

Very good my friend, my

[Guest LCPGUY]

What method did Jesus most use?  I don't recall Him chasing down the Pharisee to compel them to belief

Ya, it's not like Paul would go around planting churches or anything...

Steve my brother, planting is a whole different issue than either false teaching, or, watered down teaching.

From everything I

[Guest LadyC]

thanks for the link bryan, i'll check it out, but would still like to know from people who are familiar with warren. i'm a little confused regarding your comment about when people think the way doctrine is presented is the gospel, at least as to how it pertains to my questions. my purpose for asking was to know IF he presented the gospel, because many churches tend to forget that.

[Guest LadyC]

hmmm, it didn't answer my questions at that website, or at the saddlebackfamily website. guess i'll keep waiting for someone to answer.

[Guest LadyC]

does nobody know the answers????

[Guest bfgower]

Doctrine is important.

However, the PD idea is not about doctrine, it is how we present the Gospel. Most of our conversation above has been dealing with the issue of if we can present the gospel purely (void of style and presentation). My position is that we cannot. Using a frame work presented to us from 150 years ago to run our worship services is a very particular style. But how we have been doing it for 150 years (the great awakening, revivals ect) is fought to be protected as if it were the gospel itself. That is what I call idolatry. If you read the PDL and the PDC you may very well find issues you disagree with, being a southern Baptist Church, Saddleback

[tsth]

Yes LadyC,

I agree with what bryan said above about this topic. Although again I'll say that my concern does come, in regarding "style". It begins to get hard to tell/discern for a new believer these days, because "style" has begun to look so good, and worship looks ever so sincere or emotional, that many times doctrine for a new Christian, is not an issue, especially if it's "close enough" to the REAL thing. How would they know? I mean if it looks good and sounds good, it must be good? Especially if it makes ME feel good! How can that be bad? Remember Satan's conversation with Eve.........it wasn't much different.

However, the PD idea is not about doctrine, it is how we present the Gospel. Most of our conversation above has been dealing with the issue of if we can present the gospel purely (void of style and presentation). My position is that we cannot.

And my question is.............."When did style become such a big part of church? It used to be, church was about the Word of God, Jesus, obedience and sin, and how to live godly lives according to the Scriptures?" I truly don't think that's the case now days. In this day and time (last days), there will be deceivers who creep in unawares, and in order for that to be done, do you really think that they are going to come in with a gospel that is so blatantly obvious that it is false? No, it will look pretty good, and sound the same, but as time goes on, the deceiver will do what he's always done, change beliefs, with subtlety and something that looks close enough.

It goes back to that old conversation about how they train people to be able to detect counterfiet money?..................They have them study the REAL THING. That's how it's getting with church worship and doctrine these days.............we'd better be studying the REAL THING, or be very sure of the shepherd that is leading, that he is lead by the Holy Spirit, and not turning worship into something that's about us/mankind, rather than God and His Word.

Doctrine is important.

I think that was an understatement, to say the least.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest bfgower]

And my question is.............."When did style become such a big part of church? It used to be, church was about the Word of God, Jesus, obedience and sin, and how to live godly lives according to the Scriptures?"

Church is not about style, but it is naive to think that we can have any interaction void of style. What

[tsth]

(how we do church is really guided by traditions of men more than dictations by God)

I would agree with you, if, there was much in the way of traditional left. There's not.

In His Love,

Suzanne