The purpose driven church

[tsth]

I am a young guy of about 25, I would have a hard time evangelizing to new mothers, and elderly; but I would appeal to those in my same people group. I could certainly try to minister to those people, and by the grace of God, I may be successful, but God has placed me at a certain point in my life where I can be most effective in ministering to young adults.

Just to provoke some thought here, are you saying that you need something other than the Gospel to reach these different groups? Or is the Gospel universal? I believe that the Gospel alone is able through God's Holy Spirit, to accomplish what is needed...........Salvation. Why we've come to the point that we think we need to add to it, really is troubling.

Mark 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

Luke 5:1 So it was, as the multitude pressed about Him to hear the word of God, that He stood by the Lake of Gennesaret,

ALu 8:11

"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Lu 8:21

But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

Lu 11:28

But He said, "More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"

Acts 12:24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest bfgower]

are you saying that you need something other than the Gospel to reach these different groups?

No, I am not saying that we need something other than the Gospel to reach people.

If you think that any thing you do and say can be pure and void of style, you are mistaken. Everything you do and say is packed in culture, temporality, space, style.

Think about your church service, Before they so called, "sold out", you did not have a service void of style. You had a very particular style. I imagine that it was very conservative, with hymns and Pews. (That is basically my church) That is a style, very much influenced by the great awakening.

Changing the style has nothing to do with the sufficiency of God to change lives through the message of the Gospel.

Bryan

Church

[tsth]

Changing the style has nothing to do with the sufficiency of God to change lives through the message of the Gospel.

It does if it is idolotry or harlotry. Then God is not bound to speak in a congregation through His Holy Spirit.

A church can begin to focus on "man's traditions/styles", beginning to think it is about what "he does" in "his church" rather than what God does in/through His Word, and in the process turn from the solid foundation of the Word of God.

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men*--the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 11 But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban"--' (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."

emphasis mine

In His Love,

Suzanne (p.s.-dear bfgower, I've really enjoyed this discussion, but I'll probably have to be excused in a few minutes to get some other things done for the day.

[tsth]

And what would you say is the "motivation" for a "style" change?

I still would like to understand your answer to this question? If you're changing a style in order to accomotdate a certain group, then in essence you're saying that the Gospel is not able to reach different people, without accompaniment/or enhancements?........that "you/we", must incorporate a "new" style to reach them. I don't believe that is necessary nor pleasing. Either the Word reaches any and all groups by His/It's Own merit, or it doesn't. Period.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Guest bfgower]

You answer my statement: Changing the style has nothing to do with the sufficiency of God to change lives through the message of the Gospel.

with: It does if it is idolatry or harlotry. Then God is not bound to speak in a congregation through His Holy Spirit

You have not shown contingent relationship between Style and Idolatry. You mad an If than statement that is very debatable.

I use the same verse, along with Col 2:8-9 to show that those who think that the style the church has been clinging to for the last 150 years is biblical and the only style where God will speak to people, is infact idolatry. The goal is not to focus on the style, but to focus on evangelism and spreading the gospel to our community and to our world. The method is fluid and has nothing to do with the depth of the gospel.

Bryan

Church

[Guest bfgower]

And what would you say is the "motivation" for a "style" change?

I still would like to understand your answer to this question? If you're changing a style in order to accomotdate a certain group, then in essence you're saying that the Gospel is not able to reach different people, without accompaniment/or enhancements?........that "you/we", must incorporate a "new" style to reach them. I don't believe that is necessary nor pleasing. Either the Word reaches any and all groups by His/It's Own merit, or it doesn't. Period.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

As I said above: If you think that any thing you do and say can be pure and void of style, you are mistaken. Everything you do and say is packed in culture, temporality, space, style

Bryan

Church

Edited July 2, 2004 by bfgower

[stevehut]

What method did Jesus most use? I don't recall Him chasing down the Pharisee to compel them to belief

Ya, it's not like Paul would go around planting churches or anything...

[Guest LadyC]

ok, i've just read four pages in this thread.... i've never read anything in the purpose driven series, and from what i'm reading in this thread, there seems to be a big controversy over whether this guy really preaches the hardcore truth or whether he preaches a watered down version.

and now i'm curious.

so for those who have studied the series, can you please just answer a few questions so i can skip the remaining two pages of debate?

what does rick warren teach, preach, or write about regarding

1. homosexuality

2. consequence of sin

3. spiritual warfare (the supernatural realm on both sides... demonic and holy?)

4. premarital sex

5. modesty in appearance

6. spousal submission

7. tithing

8. witnessing

9. family discipline

10. repentance

please provide direct quotes from the PDL series if possible.

i'm not trying to be contentious, i just think that if we all know WHAT the guy is preaching, we can come to a quicker discernment about him than debating the reviews of other websites. i for one am not interested as much in what those websites think of him, i want to know what i should think of him.

[tsth]

Dear LadyC,

I'm sorry, but I think the debate has gone into more than just the PDL book itself, (at least on my part anyway).

JMHO, but I'm really not wanting to fight with anyone. Just stating what I believe is happening within the church "method/styles" of today as a whole.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest bfgower]

what does rick warren teach, preach, or write about regarding

1. homosexuality

2. consequence of sin

3. spiritual warfare (the supernatural realm on both sides... demonic and holy?)

4. premarital sex

5. modesty in appearance

6. spousal submission

7. tithing

8. witnessing

9. family discipline

10. repentance

please provide direct quotes from the PDL series if possible.

this is a cop out, but this website is a good start to his docterine.

That is really a separate conversation to the one we have been having. Some how, people make the jump to warren saying something about doctrine. The PD model is speaking to the idolatry in the church when we think that the WAY we present the gospel IS the gospel.

Bryan

Church