Does God have faith in us?

[Jeremiah Joel]

Hello To All

I had made the following statement:

Job 15:14-16:

"What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous? Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy is man, which driniketh iniquity like water?

I also made this statement:

God is the one that gives us the ability not only to believe on him, but to suffer for his names sake (Phil 1:29)

So in that God is the one that gives the ability to believe on him, he would put no confidence in man whom he gave the ability to believe on him in the first place.

I was asked the following question, which is a good question:

Than please explain 1 Thessalonians 2:4. Does not God give us a certain amount of stewardship/trust in what is rightfully His? Isn't that putting faith in us? Now granted, God is wise...He tests us to make sure we are being good stewards (kind of like when God tested Abraham by telling him to offer his son as a sacrifice to see if He could trust him)...but always the more, He does trust us. If you say "I trust this person," would that be the same as saying "I have faith in this person?"

The scripture in I Thess 2:4 is not about God trusting us, but rather being in trusted (entrusted) with the gospel.

God does not look at a man and say: "I trust that guy", that would be a direct contradiction to Job 15:14-16. We are God's workmanship, anything good that we bring forth is all God's work. If we are faithful it is God that has made us faithful. So God does not look at men and say:"lets see.... who can I trust with my Word?"

Man is wicked and filthy, there is no man that God would entrust with his Word......... unless he first has changed them. If we have been entrusted with the Word of truth, we should have the mind set that we are nothing. The ONLY reason that we have been entrusted with the Word of truth is that God has made us to be that vessel. It is not that God had trust in us. God simple made us to be entrusted with the gospel.

There are several other scriptures along these lines Romans 3:2, I Cor 9:16-17, Gal 2:7, I Tim 1:11, and Titus 1:3.

In I Cor 9:16-17 it says: "For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of (it wasn't about God trusting us): for necessity is laid upon me: yea, woe is unto me if I preach not the gospel! For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Again; it is not that we have something in us of ourselves, that God looks at us and would say: "I trust that guy." It is his goodness and kindness toward us that he would put (entrust) his Word. All the scriptures mentioned follow this same line of thinking.

In closing this post:

In II Cor 4: 1-7 it speaks of the gospel and how it has been hide. In verse 7 it speaks: "But we have this treasure (gospel) In earthen (flesh) vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us."

If it were that God found something in us (of ourselves) to be trust worthy, then it would be about us..... but it is not of us in any wise.

I hope that this would clear things up.

Jeremiah

[Guest shiloh357]

In fact there is no passage in scripture that says God has faith in anything (or that faith is an attribute He possesses - especially His having faith in humans). He does not need to.

Than please explain 1 Thessalonians 2:4. Does not God give us a certain amount of stewardship/trust in what is rightfully His? Isn't that putting faith in us? Now granted, God is wise...He tests us to make sure we are being good stewards (kind of like when God tested Abraham by telling him to offer his son as a sacrifice to see if He could trust him)...but always the more, He does trust us. If you say "I trust this person," would that be the same as saying "I have faith in this person?"

J

God does not have faith in us because God is omnscient. God knows our hearts, he sees and knows everthing about us and knows us better than we know ouselves. That precludes faith. We operate by faith in a God we cannot see. We operate by faith because we trust God who knows the end from the beginning and is the one who orders our steps and works all things for our good.

God would not need faith because the need for faith implies a lack of knowledge which God does not have.

[seekingthegospeltruth]

To date I have never heard Rob Bell say anything that was remotely Biblical without twisting the meaning.

All I can urge you to do is to compare what Rob Bell is saying to the light of the Gospel, and if they do not match then throw away what he is saying and keep the Bibles version of the story. Afterall we are not instructed to read and obey what Rob Bell is saying we are instructed to study the Bible to show ourselves approved unto God.

[Massorite]

I have been a fan of Rob Bell's for a while now, but recently realized how much controversy there was surrounding him. So I've decided to do research on what all the controversy is about and most of it is clearly taking what he has said out of context.

But... I found this on youtube - GodTube Video [youtube link removed by George and replaced with a God Tube videoNote from Worthy Christian Forums -- We do not allow YouTube links, but we do allow GodTube links. If you find a link on youtube, more than likely you can find the exact movie on GodTube, so please use the GodTube version.

For those who don't want to take the 10 minutes to watch it, basically he takes a clip from one of Rob Bell's short films, titled Dust. In this short Rob Bell talks about how Peter and the other disciples see Jesus walking on water, and Peter, who thinks he's a ghost says "Lord! Is it you?" And Jesus says that it is. So Peter wants to walk on the water too. Bell says that a disciple wanted nothing more than to be like his Rabbi, and Peter is no different. Peter wants to walk on water just like his Rabbi. So Peter gets out of the boat, walks a few steps, and sinks. Bell says "who does peter lose faith in? Christ? Jesus didn't sink. Peter lost faith in peter."

So the point Rob Bell is making is that Jesus has faith in US, to be like him. This has meant a great deal to me, knowing that Christ sees more in me than just a pile of filth. That there IS more to me than just a pile of filth.

So this pastor has an argument against what Rob Bell is saying. He's going so far as to call Bell a false teacher! He's saying that to say Christ having faith in us is blasphemous (essentially.) He mentioned something in a reply to someone about depravity. I did some research on depravity and it seems to stem from a Wesleyan view of theology. My understanding of total depravity after my research is this - Man is inherently sinful, and wicked. We aren't necessarily as wicked as we can be, but we aren't by any stretch good. That there are a few kinds of grace. Perennial grace is a kind of grace that allows us to go to God. A kind of pre-grace grace that allows us to connect to God despite our sin (please correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't research this stuff until tonight.) Perennial grace leads the way to salvation if we so choose.

So the question is then... with a Wesleyan doctrine including total depravity, does that mean God doesn't have faith in us? All he sees is a pile of filth? This scares me a lot! I know I need God, and I know I'm nothing without him but... is there really nothing God likes about me? Why did he make me if I'm so useless? And then what does this say about free will? If I'm so bad, then I can't force myself to do good (which is also apart of the depravity theology according to what I read.) But even after grace has come, any good work comes from God, and by no choice of my own because there is no good in me. And then what does that say about people who do good who have never accepted Christ as their savior? Like Candi for instance. He changed an entire culture for the better. I've also heard of a woman recently who pushed a child out of the way of a car, only to be hit by it herself. She died. According to the article, I believe she was Mormon. Was that not a good act? I'm not saying she goes to heaven but... that seems like a conscious choice to do good.

So I'm confused here, and scared of the answer, but I really need some feedback. Please help guys

thanks in advance

Always look to the word of God for your answers. Peter did not lose faith in Peter and the bible says nothing at all about Peter having faith in Peter nor does the bible say anything about Peter wanting to walk of water like his rabbi. What the bible does say is that Peter wanted to go to and be with his Saviour. Peter,s focus changed from Jesus to the storm around him and that is the reason he began to sink. Nothing is about us and everything is about Christ. We can do nothing without Christ and we can do all things through Christ. Having faith in ourselves is the same thing as focusing on ourselves and when we are focusing on ourselves we are not focusing on Jesus. When Peter began ti sink it was his faith in Jesus that faltered not faith in himself.

To answer some of your questions you must go back to Genesis. Adam and Eve were created innocent and sinless but when Eve rebelled against God by eating the forbidden fruit and Adam tried to blame his failure on God and Eve a sinful nature was brought into the scheme of things. (You need to remember that the tree was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and Adam and Eve knew no evil until they eat from the tree.) So that we are now born with a sinful nature and must be covered with the shed blood of Christ so that when God looks upon us He see,s the righteousness of Christ and not our sinful nature. One of the greatest gifts God has given us is the choice to choose or freewill. We have the freewill to choose to worship God or to worship the things of this world including satan and our choices dictate our eternal life. Will it be smoking or non-smoking? The woman you spoke of made a conscious choice to give her life for another. By her freewill choice her last act or choice on earth was a selfless one and that choice pleased God.

I have never found in the bible where it says that God has faith in us but what I do know is that God has given you some gifts so that you may glorify Him. God has a God job for you to do and the gifts He has given you are to help you do your God job. I do know that your name is already written in the Lambs book of Life because God loves you, He has Hope for you and that God wants the best of the best for you. But it all depends on the choices you make. He no longer see,s you as filthy rags but as righteous in His sight.

I think you should forget about things like perennial grace or depravity or pre-grace grace or the Wesleyan doctrine or Mormonism. We are saved from ourselves by the Grace of God and that is the only part of the grace of God that really counts for us.

Always remember. If it is not written in the bible it does not exist. Since the bible does not say that Peter wanted to walk on water like his Rabbi Peter's desire was not to walk on water but was to go to Jesus like the bible does say. Since the bible does not say that Peter lost faith in himself. Peter had no faith in himself to loss.

Mr. Rob Bell is teaching that which is not written in the bible and is a false teaching coming from a false teacher.