Losing salvation

[Jedi4Yahweh]

"Believers are absolutely secure in Christ. If a believer becomes an unbeliever at a later date, the security verses simply do not apply. Security is conditional on remaining a believer to the end...."

Yes, our security is based on our faith until the end. But faith with out works is not real faith at all. Faith without works is false faith. Its talk with out the walk. Works are the evidence of faith. You tell me you have faith but you do not have the works of faith then you are a hypocrite and a lier.

Hyrpocrite: A person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold

Example:

If I tell you that your house is on fire and that if you dont get you and your family out of the house they will all parish. You tell me you believe every thing i say, But you remained in the house and you and your family died a horrible death.

Did you really believe me? NO

Its the same when Jesus says you must repent or you will parish.

If we believe we repent and follow or we do not believe and go our own way.

If you really believe your actions will show bearing fruit of your faith.

Therefore faith with out works is not faith at all.

Works are the evidence of faith.

Can faith alone save you?

Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

True faith has works or its isnt faith

Once again, you confuse SERVICE("commitment"/"following Christ") = our walk/sanctification with SONSHIP/salvation, and thus you are making some "upfront" commitment as a condition of salvation. You are thus promoting a works-based, perforrmance-based method of obtaining acceptance by God. You are perverting the gospel of Christ.

So your saying that you can be a believer without being obeidant to God and its ok to follow the devil just aslong as we believe in Jesus.

The bible says you can only have and serve one master. You Obey one and hate the other.

You either obey sin unto death or righteouness unto life.

"Remaining a believer to the end"-these passages do not deal with members of the Body of Christ-they are directed to Jews and Christ-rejecting Gentiles during the time of judgmemt of the Great Tribulation.

The words and teachings of Christ were for all believes both Jews and Gentils. You can not pick and chose which scriptures you like and dont like you either follow all his teaching or none.

Your doctrine teaches people to disobey God.

Edited June 12, 2004 by Jedi4Yahweh

[jmwhalen]

Jedi4Yahweh writes:

"If you really believed me your actions would have shown."

Once again, those who deny eternal security, and thus do not understand the grace of God and the finality of what happened at Calvary, show their self-righteous attitude, and pervert the gospel of Christ.

Answer this question: How much actions?

"So your saying that you can be a believe without being obeidant to God. So ok its ok to follow the devil just aslong as we believe in Jesus"

You said that, I didn't-typical legalist argument, and the one Paul fought all during his ministry. I believe the gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, which you obviously either do not know, or do not understand, or do not believe. The LORD has forgiven me, justified(DECLARED RIGHTEOUS)me, sanctfied me, and sealed me, and I am confident that " ... he which hath begun a good work

[Jedi4Yahweh]

John,

I not going to enter into endless long winded debate over OSAS doctrine.

Look the only defferance in what I am teaching and what your teaching is this:

I am teaching that people need to repent believe and live a Godly life.

and yours seems to be the opposite.

I am not teaching people to live by the old law but live as Christ lived.

I am not a follower of Paul I am a follower of Jesus Christ and his life. I may follow Pauls example but only because he follows Jesus's example

Paul told his followers to follow his example as he followed Christ. This is the same thing I would have told my followers during that time because they had no other Godly Christ like examples to follow.

Pauls was teaching what Jesus taught. And if his teaching contradict Jesus then he is a false teacher.

Jesus is THE MASTER (Teacher) and we are to follow him. Jesus is our example. To teach otherwise is simple false doctrine.

Amen

Edited June 12, 2004 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Guest Genxpastor]

I don't guess there is any reason to fuss. This kind of thread always fires people up just like the validity of speaking in tongues.

I only have one comment for you guys to consider:

When Jesus died on the cross nearly 2,000 which sins did He die for? Your sins before you accepted Christ? Personally, I believe He covered them all, but we all should remember that each Christian denomination stresses repentance and doing your best to walk with the Lord.

For what its worth,

[Guest pr-eyea]

the OSAS camp assumes that a person was never saved if they become reprobate.

Im not gonna say I agree with that, but the calvinist way of looking at it is a basis for this topic.

[jmwhalen]

Jedi4Yahweh writes:"I not going to enter into endless long winded debate over OSAS doctrine.Look the only defferance in what I am teaching and what your teaching is this:

I am teaching that people need to repent believe and live a Godly life.

and yours seems to be the opposite.

I am not teaching people to live by the old law but live as Christ lived.

I am not a follower of Paul I am a follower of Jesus Christ and his life. I may follow Pauls example but only because he follows Jesus's example

Paul told his followers to follow his example as he followed Christ. This is the same thing I would have told my followers during that time because they had no other Godly Christ like examples to follow.

Pauls was teaching what Jesus taught. And if his teaching contradict Jesus then he is a false teacher.

Jesus is THE MASTER (Teacher) and we are to follow him. Jesus is our example. To teach otherwise is simple false doctrine."

__________________

No, sir, I am not disagreeing with you re."I am teaching that people need to repent believe and live a Godly life"(if you mean repent means "change your mind" and not "stop sinning")-But this is our WALK, our sanctification, not our JUSTIFICATION. It is clear from your posts that you are making our walk a prerequisite for our justification, and this is "another gospel", a perversion of the gospel of Christ, and the "error of Rome".

"I am not teaching people to live by the old law but live as Christ lived"

You have not read Romans through Philemon-that is the only conclusion possible. Christ lived UNDER THE LAW, and FULFILLED THE LAW. You are under bondage, and you are putting other people under the same yoke.

Following Paul is following Christ, and following the doctrine given to Paul from the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ from heaven is a direct command from Him.

"Pauls was teaching what Jesus taught. And if his teaching contradict Jesus then he is a false teacher."

This is a false statement. Again, the Lord Jesus Christ FULFILLED THE LAW, and taught the Law. If you deny this, you either have not read Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, early Acts, or deliberately trying to place people under the condemnation of Mt. Sanai. I pray it is the former.

Final question: WHAT IS JUSTIFICATION? Do you know?

In Christ,

John Whalen

[Guest pr-eyea]

This is a false statement. Again, the Lord Jesus Christ FULFILLED THE LAW, and taught the Law. If you deny this, you either have not read Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, early Acts, or deliberately trying to place people under the condemnation of Mt. Sanai. I pray it is the former.

There are some teaching the definition of christian is, "christ like"

Edited June 13, 2004 by pr-eyea

[His son]

Christ, and John clearly taught that a true circumcised in the heart believer will be a love slave of God, and so from that love will naturally do what Christ sent them to do as explained in Johns 17th chapter, and Marks 16the chapter, which Jesus also declared to us. We will do all things He did, and like Him fulfill the law, and the prophets. This leaves no room for any debate or argument if on will study to show themselves approved unto God. The OSAS doctrine can only support that false doctrine by taking Scripture out of total Biblical context, and privately interpreting those that oppose that doctrine and demanding literal interpretation of those they take out of total Scripture context. That's they way it is, always has been, and always will be, unless they repent.