Losing salvation

[Khristeeanos]

Oh, ok. In your way of thinking, I see what you mean. But, once you believe, repent, accept, (in my belief), that's it. It's signed, sealed and as good as delivered.

Eph.1

[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So what about when we grieve the Holy Spirit and drive Him from us? Why warn us of turning away from God and forsaking Him if it is impossible?

What ever happened to free will and choice?

And the only way we cannot fall, or fall away, is because HE KEEPS US from falling. Not by anything we do, but by what He has done.

Jude.1

[24] Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

BOY!!! Am I glad that this is true!!!

Only a weak "god" would be unable to assist us and help us from falling. However...

1 Corinthians 10:12

So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

Don't forget that Jude 20 is just before Jude 24:

Jude 20

But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.  Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you eternal life.

This is a relationship we are in with God. If we withdraw, He tries to get us back, but He won't override your free will to accept or reject Him.

You don't get salvation by works, and works won't keep it for you either. It's pretty simple.

I have never said a word about works anywhere in this thread as having anything to do with salvation.

I said we are saved by grace through faith.

[Guest Calamity]

Here is the problem...we should NEVER concentrate on sin! To ask a question like "how much sin can you do" is emphasizing the negative and brings about only negative thoughts!

But for real - if you can lose, or throw away your salvation, to know HOW MUCH SIN it takes, would be a very important thing to know, don't you think? It wouldn't be negative, it'd be a positive, because then you'd know where the limits were and when to toe the line and straighten up. Makes sense to me.

The Bible says we are only saved "IF" we continue and hold.

What about all those "other" verses that don't say that? Like for instance:

John.3

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John.5

[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Acts.10

[43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

1John.5

[1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Acts.2

[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom.10

[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Luke.8

[12] Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

John 1

[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John.6

[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[35] And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John.11

[25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John.14

[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 16

[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

[8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

[9] Of sin, because they believe not on me;

John 20

[31] But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

And many more. If being sinless, or living a certain way, or not living a certain way, doing this, or not doing that, were "conditions" of our salvation, why wasn't this mentioned in all these verses, and the others? If salvation is conditional on what we do after we become saved, then why stress "believe", and not add the other "conditions" to it? It surely would be important enough to put in there, don't you think- if our salvation depended upon conditions we had to meet.

I know you have verses and passages talking about enduring until the end, and other things, but what about all the ones that simply say "believe"? They can't be ignored either.

[Guest Calamity]

I have never said a word about works anywhere in this thread as having anything to do with salvation.

It's the same thing, Jake. Meeting certain conditions and requirements after we're saved in order to stay saved.

[Ovedya]

The OSAS man says, "I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved. The Lord Jesus gave His life once for all. There was nothing I could do, there is nothing I can do to save myself. But one thing I know, I will go one enjoying this wonderful freedom I have in Christ Jesus. I will press on knowing that one day the Lord Jesus will save me in spite of myself. All I need to do is go on believing in the efficacious blood of Jesus Christ. And if by chance I do fail, the blood of Christ is pleading for me. All I need to do is confess and believe."

The OSNAS man says, "I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved, provided that I do not fail and reject the provision which God in Christ Jesus has for me. The danger of being rejected by Christ at the Great White Throne propels me to live a life in dedication to God's word and obedience to Him. As long as I keep Christ's commandments I am okay. But if I should fail, I can always confess and repent and God will again come to live in me."

Doctrines don't save. Jesus saves.

My opinion, however, is that one lives a life enjoying the wonderful provision of God's grace, which drives him to pursue Christ even more. The other lives a life largely in fear of losing his or her salvation, which more or less drives him to live a life of legalizm and therefore the enjoyment of Christ is not as great.

JMHO

[Guest Calamity]

My opinion, however, is that one lives a life enjoying the wonderful provision of God's grace, which drives him to pursue Christ even more. The other lives a life largely in fear of losing his or her salvation, which more or less drives him to live a life of legalizm and therefore the enjoyment of Christ is not as great.

A very good summary, God-man.

[Khristeeanos]

I have never said a word about works anywhere in this thread as having anything to do with salvation.

It's the same thing, Jake. Meeting certain conditions and requirements after we're saved in order to stay saved.

By your definition, you are working to gain salvation in the first place by saying that it is conditional upon your faith and repentance.

There really is no difference, is there?

[Guest Called]

My opinion, however, is that one lives a life enjoying the wonderful provision of God's grace, which drives him to pursue Christ even more. The other lives a life largely in fear of losing his or her salvation, which more or less drives him to live a life of legalizm and therefore the enjoyment of Christ is not as great.

I grew up in a church that taught OSAS- I saw people who abused grace and lived how they wanted. They were lukewarm, non-committed and apathetic. There was no fear of God, no determination to be holy. I am not insinuating that everyone is like this, I am merely telling my experience. All I could think is "this can't be what God wants" I doubted my salvation, cause people would say, "well if people were really saved they wouldn't act like this or that." I wondered if I was really saved.

I finally broke free of that. I can tell you I have no fear at all, I do not live a life of legalism, but of holiness and I enjoy Christ now more than I ever have! I AM FREE! Hallelujah!

BTW- the church I used to attend is still dead with people living a life of mediocrite. I am now in a Spirit-Filled church that is free from "religion" and legalism! GOD IS AWESOME!

[Ovedya]

This is why generalities don't work on either end. There may be some OSAS that take grace for granted, and there may be some OSNAS that live according to legalizm. In my experience I have met some on both sides.

As far as legalizm goes, however, I think the greater majority of those that espouse legalizm doctrine are also those that embrace OSNAS.

[Guest Called]

As far as legalizm goes, however, I think the greater majority of those that espouse legalizm doctrine are also those that embrace OSNAS

That is funny you say that, cause as far as lukewarm, fence-riding goes, I think the greater majority are those that embrace OSAS!

Debbie

[Khristeeanos]

As far as legalizm goes, however, I think the greater majority of those that espouse legalizm doctrine are also those that embrace OSNAS

That is funny you say that, cause as far as lukewarm, fence-riding goes, I think the greater majority are those that embrace OSAS!

It seems that either position, if taken to its logical end conclusion will arrive at either legalism (non-OSAS) or license--as in to sin at will (OSAS).

Neither extreme is true and should be avoided.