Prophets

[byHisGrace]

No matter how many people agree with your interpretation of scripture-truth is still truth.  The baptism in the Holy Spirit didn't start with the Pentecostals, but was there all along for all who would see that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.  The gifts of the spirit will cease when that which is perfect is come.  He hasn't come yet.  We're still waiting.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Lanakila,

See, the word of God must line up with experience.

You are wrong here. It is our experience that MUST line up with the Word of God, or we are living a lie.

This is a debatable issue, please calm down shadow. Don't you ever wonder why half of the NT church doesn't agree with you on this? Maybe even more than half. We have scriptural reasons for disagreeing, we aren't just missing out on something great that you pentecostals experience.

Again you are relying on "experience" as an instructor instead of the Word of God. When the Bereans heard the Apostles preaching, they ran to the Word to see if what they were saying was so. When Jesus was tempted by Satan, He said, not by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Why do people have to be taught to speak in this prayer language?

We are NOT "taught" to speak in Tongues, it is a "gift":

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And this is the purpose ultimately for the giving of "tongues":

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Colossians 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

It is unfortunate that you believe the "gifts" have been rescended, you are missing out on almost everything our Lord has given us for the building up of the body. Undoubtedly it is also why you aren't understanding what others are saying on this forum. It is the Spirit of God that gives us "ears to hear", and you are just NOT hearing.

Your Servant in Christ,

Dad Ernie

[Lanakila]

I was baptised in the Holy Spirit at salvation as were all of you Ephesians 1:13,14. This second blessing that you believe in does not line up with scriptures. Experiences need to line up with the Word of God. That I worded that backwards before, was entirely an accident. I don't see prayer language anywhere in the actual Bible, just something that is not clear to me. If I speak in tongues of men and angels and have not love, I am as sounding brass and twinkling cymbals. Love suffers long. So its my experience against yours my interpretation against yours, and my research on what actually is done (witnessed it) in this prayer language is it is very confusing, and if the rules of the actual Bible aren't being followed, then what is the purpose of it. God doesn't give us gifts without a purpose.

I have avoided this debate over and over on this board, and will drop out now because I want to abide by the scriptural mandate to avoid foolish and contentious arguments.  It does turn into a me against you type of thing. Just know that those of us that do not speak in tongues are not missing out on the Holy Spirit, or the gifts of God. My spiritual gifts are encouragement and mercy by the way. They are in the list of gifts for the body (church) in the book of Romans 12:8. I have done some research on this and am not making things up, I promise. The prophecy that this scriptural passage is talking about is forthtelling or more commonly preaching, not foretelling.

Don't you ever wonder why a good portion of the church disagrees with you on this Dad Ernie? Its not because we are missing the annointing of the Holy Spirit. That is a false assumption based on partial knowledge, and a judgement of many Christians that I don't its fair to make.

[Guest shadow2b]

But, shadow why be offended that others disagree with you. I did read the scriptures, you get something entirely different than I. No I don't speak in tongues, and never have. I did research the scriptures on this. I don't think you read all my post either. I was being very careful to say that many people don't believe the same way on this. You just give me your experience. See, the word of God must line up with experience.

This thread started with a question about prophets, and I don't agree that there are modern day prophets. Those last days scriptures that was partially fullfilled on the day of Pentecost. Joel's prophecy will be fullfilled completely in the very last days. This is a debatable issue, please calm down shadow. Don't you ever wonder why half of the NT church doesn't agree with you on this? Maybe even more than half. We have scriptural reasons for disagreeing, we aren't just missing out on something great that you pentecostals experience. Why do people have to be taught to speak in this prayer language? Is there an interpreter when you speak in this language? If the rules of scripture aren't being followed, and rarely when I have witnessed this occurrance have the rules been followed, then its not scriptural plain and simple.

Please tone down though, this is a discussion board and we all don't agree with each other. That is the iron sharpening iron amen. Please lets sharpen each other and not grind each other, amen.

wellll lana,you STILL didNOT address THE issue of those that might have been hurt by your statements i.e. newborn babes in christ.. your statement concerning winning the world to christ is wonderful except  the mainline denominations are losing members by the thousands DAILY. I wonder WHY they can't hold onto those they already have?? POSSIBLY because of the erroneous doctrines they cling to ??NOW the LORD is that SPIRITand WHere the SPIRIT of the LORD is there is LIBERTY..2/nd.corin.3.vs.17.-- I really DON'T get upset because folks DON'T agree with me, I do get upset when they

REFUSE to READ scripture & accept what is clearly stated.i.e. john 21.vss.20.thru. 24.--Then peter,turning about,

seeth the disciple whom JESUS loved following;which also leaned on his breast at supper and said.LORD,which is he that betrayeth thee??-PETER seeing him saith to JESUS,LORD, and

what shall this man do??-JESUS saith unto him , IF I WILL THAT HE TARRY TILL I COME, WHAT IS THAT TO THEE?? FOLLOW THOU ME.Then went this saying abroad among the brethren,that that disciple should NOT DIE; yet JESUS said not

unto him, he shall not die; but,IF I WILL THAT HE TARRY TILL

I COME,WHAT IS THAT TO THEE?? THIS is the disciple which testifieth of those things, and wrote these things;and we know that his testimony is true.REV.10.VS.11.-AND he said unto me[john],THOU must prophesy again before many peoples,and nations,and tongues,and kings.---ANY six year old can read & understand exactly what these scriptures clearly state,despite ANY theologian in ANY denominational cemetery would teach..CAN YOU LANA?? OH yes lana I read EVERY word you wrote,not once not twice but thrice,just to be SURE i made NO mistakes in understanding what you were saying.. millions of people can erroneously believe the same thing for thousands of years,stating their belief is TRUE,YET that doesNOT make it TRUE..EXperience must lineUP with the WORD of GOD,ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!! SO i guess according to your research,your opinions,your denominational, theological,

doctrines,dogmas & assumptions the spiritual experiences of thousands of GOD'S prophets,apostles,evangelists,pastors,

teachers,are FALSE?? Have you EVER read 1/st.corin.chpt.13-?? PAUL specifically teaches on the SPIRITUAL GIFTS given to the CHURCH?? US,WE,THE CHURCH NOW,TODAY!!!! DO YOU REFUTE GOD'S WORD?? NOPE I'M NOT going to continue this

DIScussion & confuse you with facts[ of scripture] your head is already madeUP...   ------

[Lanakila]

I said I will bow out, and I will after this statement. Telling a newborn babe in Christ in my church that they are missing something, and that it is the Holy Spirit harms more people than it helps. I was confronted with Pentecostalism as a newborn babe in Christ, and I was so beyond confused, and struggled with it for quite some time. I have prayed numerous prayers, read numerous books on this topic, and your and many others assumption that we don't have the Holy Spirit or even its power is downright offensive, and hurtful especially to newborn babes in Christ.

I am not part of a mainline denomination and am in a growing church, that does not teach that the miraculous sign gifts are for today. By the way there are many of them out there. If you keep reading in 1 Corinthians to chapter 14, you will see much of my opositon to this modern day movement. It breaks the rules of scripture, most of the time. The word utterance does not necessarily mean speaking in tongues (which is a language), and I might suggest you doing a word study on that word.

Tongues did not occur in the OT. No real manifestations of tongues were seen in the post-Apostolic era through the Protestant Reformation. Tongues did indeed

[byHisGrace]

A good book to read on this subject would be THE BIBLE-let your doctrine come from there.  Many try to reinterpret scripture to make it agree with their preconcived doctrine.  Let's go to Acts chapter 19 for a start.  There you will find some believers at Ephesus-they were asked by Paul if they recieved the Holy Spirit SINCE they believed.  Obviously this wasn't something that happened automatically or he wouldn't have had to ask that question.  We can go over this and over it.  We will not change your mind and you most assuredly won't change ours.  I will stand on the Word and it is plain to me that the Word considers the baptism in the Holy Spirit after salvation, with speaking in tongues as the most common evidence., to be a normal part of Christian life.

[Timothy]

Hello BHG and all,

My following statements are not about tongues or prophecies, but about the situation BHG described in Acts 19:1-7, as well as Acts 8:15-17.

In both cases, the people were found to have received only a baptism of repentance (in John's name). In all likelyhood, these disciples were not aware that the messiah had come, been crucified, and resurrected. Their knowledge was incomplete. So they were presented the Gospel message, baptized in the name of Jesus, and received the Holy Ghost.

When they were baptized by John, the Holy Ghost had not yet come, because Christ had not yet ascended. This is why they received it at a later time. Today, we receive the Holy Ghost when we hear and believe the Gospel. Just as Paul said;

Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

[byHisGrace]

I would like to make 2 points in reference to your post.

[martyr]

Lana,Thanks for your insight.  I too read the Word and consult with other Christians and have read learned theologians on the subject, and lean towards the ceasing of some forms of gifting as the Bible teaches.  I also see that the Bible prophets were foretellers and forthtellers.  I have not yet met someone that claimed to have a prophetic word be completely accurate in 100% of their supposed prophecies.  According to the Bible, this makes them a false prophet just like nostradamus.  I believe that lots of people desire the supposed glamor of being able to foretell the future, but we all have a direct command from Jesus to forthtell of His coming kingdom.  Hence, all Christians are to be prophets.  Remember, as we leave our church parking lots and log out of our Christian websites, that it is then that we prophets of the Living God are entering the mission field that God has ordained for each of us.

[Guest shadow2b]

I said I will bow out, and I will after this statement. Telling a newborn babe in Christ in my church that they are missing something, and that it is the Holy Spirit harms more people than it helps. I was confronted with Pentecostalism as a newborn babe in Christ, and I was so beyond confused, and struggled with it for quite some time. I have prayed numerous prayers, read numerous books on this topic, and your and many others assumption that we don't have the Holy Spirit or even its power is downright offensive, and hurtful especially to newborn babes in Christ.

I am not part of a mainline denomination and am in a growing church, that does not teach that the miraculous sign gifts are for today. By the way there are many of them out there. If you keep reading in 1 Corinthians to chapter 14, you will see much of my opositon to this modern day movement. It breaks the rules of scripture, most of the time. The word utterance does not necessarily mean speaking in tongues (which is a language), and I might suggest you doing a word study on that word.

Tongues did not occur in the OT. No real manifestations of tongues were seen in the post-Apostolic era through the Protestant Reformation. Tongues did indeed