Can a Christian who refuses to be baptized be a Christian?

[Guest shiloh357]

If this has already been answered disregard this question..BUT

Since Jesus did not have any past sinful life to "wash" away, was His Baptism symbolic and an example purely for us TO FOLLOW and obey?

The reason Jesus was baptized was to identify with us. Jesus stood as our representive before Heaven and Heaven's representative to us.

Isaiah 53 tells us that Jesus was numbered among the transgressors, baptism was the first step during His ministry in showing that he was counted as being one of us.

But wasn't "baptism" something that came from cleansing rituals or requirements or something like that?

You know what I'm referring to?

Yes, you are referring to the ritual mikvaot (baptismals) outside the southern walls of Jerusalem. Pilgrims had to immerse themselves in those mikvaot before entering the city.

John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, and served a different purpose.

[Guest shiloh357]

If this has already been answered disregard this question..BUT

Since Jesus did not have any past sinful life to "wash" away, was His Baptism symbolic and an example purely for us TO FOLLOW and obey?

The reason Jesus was baptized was to identify with us. Jesus stood as our representive before Heaven and Heaven's representative to us.

Isaiah 53 tells us that Jesus was numbered among the transgressors, baptism was the first step during His ministry in showing that he was counted as being one of us.

Thanks for that, makes sense totally.

Another question

Jesus did not baptise - His disciples did....was this a normal custom amongst Rabbis?

Not sure... good question! I will try to find the answer.

[ayin jade]

So for those who say baptism is required.....when did the thief on the cross get baptised?

Well the OP is addressing refusal.... doesn't seem like he had much of chance at that.

Not to mention baptism is a symbol of things that were yet to fully transpire.

So its a moot point. Since the resurrection had not occurred.

I would speculate, his faith was imputed to him as righteousness...as it was with Abraham.

I thought Jesus died before the thief on the cross. It usually takes a couple of days for someone to die on the cross, which is why it was so unusual that He died as quickly as He did.

[Mudcat]

So for those who say baptism is required.....when did the thief on the cross get baptised?

Well the OP is addressing refusal.... doesn't seem like he had much of chance at that.

Not to mention baptism is a symbol of things that were yet to fully transpire.

So its a moot point. Since the resurrection had not occurred.

I would speculate, his faith was imputed to him as righteousness...as it was with Abraham.

I thought Jesus died before the thief on the cross. It usually takes a couple of days for someone to die on the cross, which is why it was so unusual that He died as quickly as He did.

Well do you think the thief died before Christ issued the Great Commission?

[Guest Biblicist]

Do you think they are ashamed of the Gospel of Christ?

Not in any way, they share it regularly with their friends, and teachers at school.

[mrs]

Neither of my children have been baptized, they are 16 and 13, I do not feel it is right to force them into it. My nephew's grandmother told him, "Alright now, you are old enough, you've accepted Christ it's time to get Baptized." And so he did. I'm not sure if that's the right approach.

Both my children have been asked, by family and church members why and they both shrug their shoulders. Does that mean they are refusing to follow God's ordinance to be baptized? Or is it just something that the Lord has not revealed them to do at this point? Both of them have been taught from God's Word about it. So it's not like they don't know what is right. They just don't "want" to. Is that refusal?

Does it mean they are living in sin because they haven't?

I'd like to give you a real life story about why NOT to force your child to be baptized.

Growing up, I knew what baptism was and it would terrify me. I was very shy and didn't want to be in front of people. As a child of 8 or 9 I remember asking my dad why he couldnt just baptize me in the bathtub.

At 10, I said in an indirect way that I had gotten saved and my parents brought up baptism. I still remember, because it was so stressful and unpleasant to me, sitting in the living room as they talked to me about it and I would not give in to the idea. For whatever reason they dropped it at the time.

When I was actually saved at the age of 12 in summer tent meetings, baptism was the last thing on my mind. I was too busy enjoying the freedom from that heavy weight, and the tenderness of a new conscience.

Then my mom started bringing it up, and I started getting uncomfortable. Again I remember one night going to church in the fall, and she had been talking about it, and I told her I wouldnt, and she was mad at me.

Finally bowing to the pressure, I asked our pastor to get baptized, and was with a group of other people in early October. It was not a special time for me though,and afterward as people were having fellowship my mom commented to me on how I didnt look happy. I just frowned and turned away.

The reason I told you is the whole episode was entirely unpleasant. I was a child and a new Christian and there was no joy in being baptised or even really understanding full well the signifigance. It was just something to do so my mom would stop bothering me about it. It still leaves a bitter taste in my memory. So be careful how you approach it with your children. It could be they are just scared at being in front of people.

[Mudcat]

Do you think they are ashamed of the Gospel of Christ?

Not in any way, they share it regularly with their friends, and teachers at school.

Biblicist,

If a am being nosy, please tell me so.

But I am curious. Have they made a public profession of faith in your/their church?

I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church and typically baptism is arranged as soon as such a profession is made.

Do things work differently in you church?

I suppose I am not understanding the situation very well.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

[damo1]

the reason why i said what i said in my post and said i dont want to get into a debate with anyone on this was my own reason

when i went threw teen challange i noticed they do things diffrently to how i was taught and it was something i was giving over to god as i did not want to be doing something just because it was the cool thing to do

i came out of jail in 1988 i was led to a charasmatic church and as i setled and started comming to the church i began to ask my friends who became my spiritual mentors who took me into their home some serious questions as one of their friends was about to get baptized and i was invited to tag along so i went

for 6months i avoided getting baptized i read up on it i listened i joted what i came across in my jornul and one day i made an appointment with the assistant pastor

my spiritual mentors did not pressure me nor did the christians in my cell group nor did the youth pastor or the young people in the youth group

i rang the assistant pastor up and said i would like to talk on baptisem and why it is important for a christian to do this

also i was comming before god asking him if this is what he wanted me to do

i had asked him to forgive me i repented of what i did when i was a non believer i was also going to the aa and na meetings i had done my 12 step program i asked those who i hurt to forgive me and i faced up to some things i was running from

i had gotten rid of my old friends as i saw that the old crowed i new would bring me down

step 4 made a searching and fearless moral inventory of our selves

step 4 is were you write everything down you have done and when you are finished you meet with you assinged counsler and you go over step 4 you cant do the other steps unless you finish step four and when i say you write everything down that is what is asked of the ones who do the 12 step program in church in front of a pastor you simply say the sinners prayer thats it very simple compared to what i did by doing step 4 it took a ful pad for what i had done while i was a non believer and i stil have my pad with what i had written in my note pad it takes a couple of days to jot everything down by doing step four their are no short cuts

and when you meet with your counsler he guides you threw step four for a catholic the confession box and the priest sitting on the other side the counsler does not say a thing to the staff its like you confessing your sins to god

step 5 Admitted to God to our selves and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs

step 6 were entirely ready to have god remove our defects of character

step 7 humbly asked him to remove our short commings

when i was doing step 7 this is were i seeked my assistant pastor as he would pick me up and i would help him with the milk run he had and i would spend a fair bit of time with him helping him on the farm he had i would clear rocks of the land i would help with feeding the animals he had and i would help clean the trucks out to get them ready for the next day

steps 5 and 7 requirers that one allows god to enter into ones life and begin work it requires a surrender of sort that one surrenders one ego and pressents him self to god for healing the importance of step 5 and 7 using steps 1 and 4 cannot be overemphazied care full self examination and preperation for a full experiance of confession is of the utmost importance

this is how a recovering alcaholic and recovering drug addict is taught if you have not been to a aa meeting or to an na meeting you would not know what i am talking about step 7 is when i started to seek out weather it was right to me to be baptized

i met with my assistant pastor for 4 weeks and i had a note pad and a pen and my bible and my assistant pastor allowed me to ask as much questions as i wanted and he guided me we even looked at the theif on the cross as i noticed he did not get baptized but jesus had forgiven him as he was the one who had a go at the other criminal who was on jesus left the one on jesus right was the one who asked jesus to forgive him as he some how new that jesus was innocent what made the criminal ask a man he did not know to forgive him ? and jesus said to the one who he forgave today you wil be with me in paradise

i told my assistant pastor i was seeking god and comming before god asking him to give me some sign if this is what is requried off me i fianely got my answer as i was led to acts 19 were paul had come across the disciples who had yet not heard of the holy spirit

when paul asked them into what baptisem were you baptised they said into johns baptisem and paul said john baptized you with the baptisem of repentance telling the people to believe in the one who was to come fater him which was jesus

so they were batpized in the name of jesus and when paul had placed his hands on them and prayed over them they received the holy spirit

i also took a close look at jesus baptisem were he was dunked under water i said to my assistant pastor would i need to do what jesus did due to who i was when i was a non believer and having asked christ to come into my life i said to my assistant pastor if i refuse and just belive will i be teling christ i dont believe or will it be showing christ i hav no respect

as i said to my assistant pastor most of my life i did what my mates were doing i followed the crowed with out questioning why i was doing some off the things to please those around me yet if i refused i would not have been accepted with the group of guys i was hanging out with i always though went one step above the leader never pulling back or thinking

my assistant pastor told me their is no pressure and he said that is why my two friends who took me had not pressured me or my cell group leader or the youth pastor

my assistant pastor said baptisem is simply you dying to your old life saying to satan you no longer belong to him thats it

Colossians 1

22 But now christ has brought you back to God by dying in his physical body he did this so that you could come into Gods presence without sin fault or blame

Galatians 2

20 i no longer live but christ lives in me the life i now live i live by believing in Gods son who loved me and took my punishment for my sins

the two scripture verses i have given you really hit home as i was refusing to be baptized i was 18yrs old just out of jail encounterd god in a power full way and i did not want to offend god i needed to hear from him with out any one putting pressure on me and when got given these two verses i rang my assistant pastor up and said i am ready to be baptized

when i was in teen challange in 1993 i noticed they do things a little diffrent what they got us to do is take a shovel go with our counlser and dig what they call a grave and when you have finished digging the grave you step in with your counsler stepping in and praying over you you are told to lay on your back and you ask god to forgive you for all the things you have done the counsler leads you and he takes his time when you are finished you get up and go to the pile off dirt and start putting the dirt back into the grave you have dug by doing this you have said good by to your old life and are doing what i had given you in Galatians 2 verse 20

i like what has been discussed so far i have come back and i have taken my time to go over your responces just to see were you are comming from and if your experiances are like my experiance concerning what the op is wanting us to respond to

teen challange still does this but its only done in Australia

if i have confused anyone by what i have said please ask me and i wil do my best to explaine what i have left in my post

i hope by what i have said has not confused anyone this is how i approached this my self i did not jump in the deep end or did i agree just to keep everyone happy i was in gangs and i did things to please the guys i hooked up with

God bless from damo

[ColleenLovesMischief]

So for those who say baptism is required.....when did the thief on the cross get baptised?

Well the OP is addressing refusal.... doesn't seem like he had much of chance at that.

Not to mention baptism is a symbol of things that were yet to fully transpire.

So its a moot point. Since the resurrection had not occurred.

I would speculate, his faith was imputed to him as righteousness...as it was with Abraham.

I thought Jesus died before the thief on the cross. It usually takes a couple of days for someone to die on the cross, which is why it was so unusual that He died as quickly as He did.

Well do you think the thief died before Christ issued the Great Commission?

Christ died first. The thief would be under the same plan of salvation we are, and Jesus told him that this day he would be with Him in paradise. I can't question it. Jesus said he would be there, and God doesn't change the rules according to each person either.

[irishcowboy]

a person may have legitimate concerns about being baptized. some might be a massive fear of water (hydrophobia)

other issues might be warrented.....

when the Lord convicts some one that they need to be baptized, they will go with it in due time, do not condemn some one for not having been baptized. they can be a full Christian with out being Baptized, and that will not.....WILL NOT .... .keep them from the Kingdom..... it is an outward expression of an inward action.

how many people did Paul baptize? why so many or so few???? who baptized the repentant thief on the cross???

does it matter who?????

yes and no.... it does not have to be the pastor.... it does not have to be the youth pastor..... it can even be your mom or dad...

we (the children of God, Christians) are all called to be ministers....... if we are not ministering to others, then we may need to reconsider our stance with the Lord...... for if we are not growing, we are dying.... no other direction can we go, either grow or die....

I (my personal belief, based on the Word ) is in the Name of the Father, the Name of the Son, and the Name of the Holy Ghost.

do not let some one tell you that if you have not been baptized, you will not be saved until you are..... that is not what the Word says..... READ IT.... verify it.....

mike