The divorce and remarriage question

[BigBert]

Smalcald--I myself support the freedom to remarry, but not as "freely" as some likely hold to. I think it's a case-by-case situation, largely.

For instance, let's assume two believers, and one spouse is truly attempting to reconcile on a consistent basis. Let's further assume that spouse has not had a history of, say, adultery or severe abuse but the other spouse opted to leave and divorce anyway. Assuming the latter wants to remarry, I would have a deeply difficult time justifying performing that ceremony as a pastor or supporting it in any way at all. Maybe the spouse that was deserted had other issues. However, if he/she has truly shown a willingness to do whatever necessary to save the marriage, I find it against all aspects of God's character to allow the new marriage to take place.

This doesn't encompass all situations, but I think it a godly perspective that considers the situation and invokes God's desire to love and cherish one another in an atmosphere where true reconciliation is possible, but for the one side's bitterly closed heart.

Edited September 2, 2009 by BigBert

[Smalcald]

Thanks Bigbert.

I think what you have shown is truth.

There are many cases in which the wronged spouse has a sincere desire to reconcile and yet the other party simply refuses.

To me when someone passes up on the possibility of repentance we have a real real problem spiritually. We can get into the spiritually dangerous situation of what is called planned repentance, which is no repentance at all, but in fact shows a heart which is turned away from God and faith itself.

I know personally of a situation this summer in which an aqaintence of mine through work left his wife for another women, his wife did not cheat on him according to him, he simply said she was hard to live with, he didn't use that nice of language, they have a child. The wife begged him to stay, saying she stilled loved him even after the affair. He left anyway and now is planning to marry this women he had the affair with once the divorce is final.

So when he repents for his sin after he remarries, how is that faith, how can this guy be not living in sin, marriage or no marriage?

But as you say it is and must be a case by case situation even based on a literal and conservative view of scripture this is what we must do.

[Smalcald]

But should we not be able to offer ANY concrete guidance on this topic? Are we saying that we as the Christian church should NEVER tell anyone that biblically they should not divorce?

Cobalt, I would be curious under what circumstances would you if you were a pastor refuse to perform a second marriage for someone?

[BigBert]

Thanks Bigbert.

I think what you have shown is truth.

There are many cases in which the wronged spouse has a sincere desire to reconcile and yet the other party simply refuses.

To me when someone passes up on the possibility of repentance we have a real real problem spiritually. We can get into the spiritually dangerous situation of what is called planned repentance, which is no repentance at all, but in fact shows a heart which is turned away from God and faith itself.

I know personally of a situation this summer in which an aqaintence of mine through work left his wife for another women, his wife did not cheat on him according to him, he simply said she was hard to live with, he didn't use that nice of language, they have a child. The wife begged him to stay, saying she stilled loved him even after the affair. He left anyway and now is planning to marry this women he had the affair with once the divorce is final.

So when he repents for his sin after he remarries, how is that faith, how can this guy be not living in sin, marriage or no marriage?

But as you say it is and must be a case by case situation even based on a literal and conservative view of scripture this is what we must do.

Agree that's a situation that, IMO, is where the guy's in the wrong. The woman may have been hard to live with, but she showed no interest in leaving and in fact appears deeply sorrowful for his splitting from her. Perhaps it's indirectly a message she took to heart and would do whatever she could to try and make the marriage more fruitful for both parties. Despite her continued efforts, he's moving on and messing with someone else and set to jump to her.

I can't abide that. Having said that, if he goes through with it, it's certainly something he'll have to answer to God on. Meanwhile, I feel that while he should not remarry, if he does go ahead, then I don't believe it's a loving thing to insist the abandoned woman stay unmarried. She should feel free as God moves in her to remarry another believer.

[BigBert]

But should we not be able to offer ANY concrete guidance on this topic? Are we saying that we as the Christian church should NEVER tell anyone that biblically they should not divorce?

See my reply to the real life scenario you cited. I believe it is the Church's responsibility to get involved in these matters, yes. I just think it needs to take the approach I've laid out in so doing. Having said that, I recognize we're all fallible and I don't have all the answers for the many questions on this difficult subject.

[BigBert]

Briefly, Jesus reveals more than anything God's grace and love. Just one example is His request to turn the other cheek, rather than take an eye for an eye. Everything He did seemed to be about displaying love to the fullest. Does the same Savior who repeatedly sets the standard of grace then take a contrary position on divorce? Some seem to believe that.

I think the point is missed when we try and blanket cover something He said without really considering who He was talking to and the situation right then and there. He tended to consistently defend the defenseless or the wronged, which seems exactly what He was doing in His passages on marriage and divorce.

As has been noted before, Jesus was dealing with unbelievably consistently hard hearted men who dominated women and often treated them worse than slaves. With woman's position being so inferior in that society and being thrown out for cooking a bad meal, who do you think Jesus is going to strongly defend here?

Notice the verses; He doesn't say a word about what grounds the woman had for divorce. We're making assumptions if we carry His statements to exclude all the allowances in the Old Testament for the woman leaving. Further, many of the men were just putting away their wives without an actual certificate of divorce, vastly compounding the problem because the women could not legally remarry, being literally guilty of adultery in a legal sense--though their husbands had ruthlessly dismissed them. [Many, in fact, believe this is primarily what Jesus was referring to in using the term for putting away and not divorce, just as God through the prophet Malachi (2:16) stated He "hated the putting away."]

Again, of course Jesus is going to come down hard on these hypocritical Pharisees, who on top of everything else were trying to trick Jesus in their questioning so they could further accuse Him. Instead, He cut through their garbage and ridiculed their hearts, telling them clearly the only thing they could put away (He didn't actually say divorce) their wives would be for legitimate, very limited grounds of adultery/fornication (these words are not always super clear in meaning, but they relate to unfaithfulness for sure).

Interestingly, it's the same reasons God Himself gave for giving Israel a certificate of divorce in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 3:8, with the same exact Hebrew word for divorce as was used in the laws Moses granted for divorce). Israel was acting as the adulterer, the whore. One's physical-spiritual (the human marriage), the other relationship solely spiritual, but the same meaning--severe unfaithfulness.

Today's world and our society is wholly different, with the women actually often filing for the divorce and sometimes abusing the men in some manner, etc. I think it's somewhat apples and oranges, as our society, for instance, sure doesn't possess such a male dominated culture of bullies.

What's not apples and oranges is the motivation behind His teachings and expectations. And that motivation is love and mercy, "for which there is no law," as Paul would say.

The Bible covers a lot of ground, obviously, but most would agree many situations in life come up that it does not cover, whether that be content or context. It does, however, give us godly principles to pursue. It's when our motivation is wholly selfish that we know we're doing wrong in His eyes.

But I believe many bad marriages reach a point where we fail to consider the context and fall short in showing love to the victim by holding him or her to standards we ourselves may not endure (or at least shouldn't). Even if we do, it's quite conceivable God Himself would not want us to in some cases.

As always, peoples interpretations of Jesus teachings on divorce, and any other subject should be tempered by heart knowledge, not head knowledge, and the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. Jesus was saying to the Pharisees, who really didn't want to hear it, that you cannot just divorce your wife for any old reason like not having supper ready on time, or some other equally stupid reason. Also, as you said, a great deal of the time, men simply "put away" their wives without lawfully divorcing them, causing the woman all kinds of problems. That is the issue that Jesus was dealing with. But traditionally, the church in general has used these scriptures to people's detriment instead of to their benefit. They have used them to keep certain class of Christians pressed down and relegated to a lower status because they have failed to explore the spirit of what Christ said. It is much easier to go with a legalistic approach based on interpretations that are, in some cases, faulty at best. The only way we will know for certain what Jesus meant is when we stand before Him face to face, and some people will be very surprised by what He has to say to them on this issue.

I think you're right.

[Smalcald]

Thanks Bigbert.

I think what you have shown is truth.

There are many cases in which the wronged spouse has a sincere desire to reconcile and yet the other party simply refuses.

To me when someone passes up on the possibility of repentance we have a real real problem spiritually. We can get into the spiritually dangerous situation of what is called planned repentance, which is no repentance at all, but in fact shows a heart which is turned away from God and faith itself.

I know personally of a situation this summer in which an aqaintence of mine through work left his wife for another women, his wife did not cheat on him according to him, he simply said she was hard to live with, he didn't use that nice of language, they have a child. The wife begged him to stay, saying she stilled loved him even after the affair. He left anyway and now is planning to marry this women he had the affair with once the divorce is final.

So when he repents for his sin after he remarries, how is that faith, how can this guy be not living in sin, marriage or no marriage?

But as you say it is and must be a case by case situation even based on a literal and conservative view of scripture this is what we must do.

Agree that's a situation that, IMO, is where the guy's in the wrong. The woman may have been hard to live with, but she showed no interest in leaving and in fact appears deeply sorrowful for his splitting from her. Perhaps it's indirectly a message she took to heart and would do whatever she could to try and make the marriage more fruitful for both parties. Despite her continued efforts, he's moving on and messing with someone else and set to jump to her.

I can't abide that. Having said that, if he goes through with it, it's certainly something he'll have to answer to God on. Meanwhile, I feel that while he should not remarry, if he does go ahead, then I don't believe it's a loving thing to insist the abandoned woman stay unmarried. She should feel free as God moves in her to remarry another believer.

Yes I basically agree. Although I don't think the Christian Church should be involved in anyway in the guy's second marriage as it is not a true marriage based on scripture Certainly his wife would be free to re-marry, in addition I think the Church should assure her that indeed she is free and remove any stain of doubt or guilt she may honestly hold as a Christian for the divorce.

But in the case of the guy, he knows from scripture that he has committed adultery, that in fact he IS committing adultery and yet he turns his back on this and continues in sin. He has an opportunity right now even to stop his adultery and return to his wife. What is worse in my mind is that he now wants to use the Church to try make legitimate his state of sin, to me this is the big big spiritual problem he has, without repentance there is no conversion there is no true faith. The Church has an obligation to point this out to him for the sake of his own soul.

[BigBert]

Great post, Cobalt. And I think I can speak for more than myself in that we're appreciative of your laying out your life's difficulties on this forum.

One thing that stuck out to me is your marrying non-believers and I see this a lot as a fundamental flaw in a marriage. God wants us to be equally yoked, and I have serious doubts my wife (soon to be ex) is a believer. Certainly, she's in the same place your two ex's were--not wanting any part of reconciliation despite our best efforts nor wanting a real relationship of any kind with God (so far as I can tell).

[William2384]

I dont know what to tell you But Jesus knows every circumstance but the answer lies in forgiveness, kindness, brotherly love and all the fruits of the spirit that Jesus is. So stay close to Jesus and if sinned ask forgiveness and then listen to His instructions so not to do it again and end up in the same bondage. All instruction are for our well being and God knows what effects our life and hearts but He is God and nothing is impossible so pray and practice the things of the fruit of the spirit.

[Smalcald]

Divorce almost always has an instigator and a victim. The victims are the walking wounded, and the very institution that should be helping them pick up the pieces often simply hurts them more through judgement, narrow-mindedness, and ignorance. They have enough condemnation in their lives already, usually from friends, family, and former family members. They don't need more grief from the church.

Boy I really agree with this. For me that is the reason our Churches should get more invovled with divorce and re-marriage, and really help those wounded, the victims. The fact is scripture is pretty sound in its way it deals with people and these people need our support, the pastor should be able to offer the Churches blessing to these people and give them the freedom to move on.

Part of that however is not giving its blessing to the instigators. Adultery cannot be blessed by a Church and when a Church takes part in a second marriage of someone who is leaving/cheating/abondoning thier true husband/wife/family, it is part of the ongoing sin.