Bailout Bill defeated 206-227

[O'Dannyboy]

Believe it or not the business I work for has been receiving calls all day from lenders trying to loan us money.

[traveller]

Believe it or not the business I work for has been receiving calls all day from lenders trying to loan us money.

Hey - I got a fax from a dude in Nigeria that actually had 25 mil but cant' get it out of the country without help. He's willing to give me 10% to help him.

(sorry - couldn't resist! )

[WayneB]

Yes, my parents lived through the tail end of the Great Depression too. My Dad will tell you stories.

You all ever watch this fella Kramer on Cable?

He predicted all of this two years ago. I was watching him the other night and he said this bailout will not solve the problem because the problem is worldwide. He was predicting that the market would continue to fall with or without the bailout. It would jsut fall slower with the bailout.

He was in favor for the bailout to stop all of the panic though.

Either way this Nation is getting it for it's unrepentant greed and make no mistake the Government knew something was amiss. They just thought this unrealistic borrowing and spending would just keep going on and on.

Don't worry after all the partisan nonsense clears the air later this week, like Wednesday, Washington will bring this back up make some small changes and then vote it back to life. Then both sides will be able to state openly that they stood for the right thing. When the right thing is to do the perp walk with those Politicians who were intimate with the internal workings of Fannie Mae.

Agreed...Kramer is pretty sharp. Regardless, he's right...the panic is what will exasperate the crisis and lead to collapse. Where we disagree is that the fall will continue with the bailout. I don't believe that. Regardless, he's a lot smarter than me so we'll just have to see. The bailout ain;t gonna "fix" the problem but rather it will put out the fire and shorten the recovery...or at least the beginning of a recovery.

Dave...everyone knew that something was amiss. My sons began receiving $5,000 credit card applications when they were still in college. I tore everyone of them up and still do.

Edited September 29, 2008 by WayneB

[WayneB]

Believe it or not the business I work for has been receiving calls all day from lenders trying to loan us money.

Folks are trying to find a safe place to put their money. Obviously your credit score and D&B are solid.

[O'Dannyboy]

Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008

While not an exact copy it gives a pretty good overview of the bill. What the description seems to leave out is the earmarks.

[JustinM]

First off, the capital gains tax is worthless now. Because, no one that has any amount of money in the stock market will make gains for the next several years. So, that revenue is gone.

Secondly, I am glad Congress voted against this bill, but for several reasons.

I have faith in Capitalism.

I believe the bailout was unjust and that we would not benefit from this.

I believe that Congress messed this up by trying to exploit our weakness and give up to 20% of that money to the Democrats' special interests. (A.C.O.R.N. and La Raza)

I believe Congress is only interested in solving their own problems and couldn't care less about ours.

I believe tha if Congress were serious about reforming our financial market, they would have called for the resignation of the people that led us to failure. Barney Frank, Franklin Delanore Raines, Chris Dodd, SEC Paulson, amongst others, should resign in the best interests of the country. It was their incompetence that caused this, so they should resign.

Our government knew about this crisis 3 years ago, unfortunately the people that chaired the finance committee in congress stood in the way of reform and these are the same people that want to fix it. No, they must go, before I will take any proposal seriously.

I don't mind biting the bullet if it will preserve the liberty and financial freedom of my children and grandchildren. I don't feel responsible for this crisis, because I have been responsible with my finances, but I do want to do what it takes to fix it. I want to hand a better, more vibrant and more virtuous country to my decendents.

I can't help that I (my generation) inherited America in the bankrupt (morally, fiscally) condition it is in, but we are about to be brought lower than anyone has ever been before, we need to rebuild and we need to preserve what made this country great.

Those values exist in the Constitution, that is where "reconstruction" must begin. Because, if we ignore the fundamentals of our liberty, this will happen again and next time, we may not be able to recover from it.

[WayneB]

I respectfully disagree with your opinion about the New Deal. Our failing Social Security system was created by the New Deal. Anytime we leave it up to government to take care of what we should be able to personally care for, we find ourselves worse off. The reason for that is because it empowers government over us which leads to corruption. I do think that the Works Progress Administration (WPA) was a good program, but that was a national program of development - not a loan to irresponsible people.

That's okay...

...to disagree.

Like I mentioned, there were good initiatives and there were not so good initiatives within the framework of the New Deal. The New Deal brought us Social Security, the Works Progress Administration (which provided my grandfather work in Montana), the Tennessee Valley Authority (which has lived beyond its time) AND many other initiatives to include major banking reforms and reforms on Wall Street. Overall, the New Deal shortened the recovery from an unprecedented financial meltdown...

Unemployment was cut in half (from 25% to 13% nationally) the very first year Roosevelt was in office.

The point is that sometimes the Federal Government needs to step in and I believe that this is such a time. Unfortuantely, it seems that they want to hang around long after the fire is out. That is why drives fiscal conservatives to be fearful of any government bailout. We fear socialism... and we have good reason with the bunch we have in Washington representing our interests.

Back in the 30's, there were many fiscal conservatives that considered the New Deal a form of commuinism...and in a way they were right in a way.

Sometimes we need to set aside our ideologies for a short time and accept the situation...this is one of those times.

[Matthitjah]

Yes, my parents lived through the tail end of the Great Depression too. My Dad will tell you stories.

You all ever watch this fella Kramer on Cable?

He predicted all of this two years ago. I was watching him the other night and he said this bailout will not solve the problem because the problem is worldwide. He was predicting that the market would continue to fall with or without the bailout. It would jsut fall slower with the bailout.

He was in favor for the bailout to stop all of the panic though.

Either way this Nation is getting it for it's unrepentant greed and make no mistake the Government knew something was amiss. They just thought this unrealistic borrowing and spending would just keep going on and on.

Don't worry after all the partisan nonsense clears the air later this week, like Wednesday, Washington will bring this back up make some small changes and then vote it back to life. Then both sides will be able to state openly that they stood for the right thing. When the right thing is to do the perp walk with those Politicians who were intimate with the internal workings of Fannie Mae.

Agreed...Kramer is pretty sharp. Regardless, he's right...the panic is what will exasperate the crisis and lead to collapse. Where we disagree is that the fall will continue with the bailout. I don't believe that. Regardless, he's a lot smarter than me so we'll just have to see. The bailout ain;t gonna "fix" the problem but rather it will put out the fire and shorten the recovery...or at least the beginning of a recovery.

Dave...everyone knew that something was amiss. My sons began receiving $5,000 credit card applications when they were still in college. I tore everyone of them up and still do.

You simply cannot loan money to people who cannot pay it back. Bank of America was giving credit cards to illegal aliens with $1,500.00 loan limits on them.

You also cannot give loans to folks based upon future projections of the increase of equity on the house.

The people who started this nonsense are now the ones who want to fix it and gain control over it and are pointing their fingers at everyone else. I simply do not Trust them and I also feel that this ill not stop the downslide because it is a Spiritual situation and not a physical one in this Nation.

I recently heard a really good sermon about how we have crossed the Ancient Boundaries set by God Himself. Those boundaries are the ones that are a no go but we have begun to accept them as a Nation. I see no repentance until things get a whole lot worse. That is why I feel that the bailout will not work. The wisdom of man falls way short of the wisdom of God.

A young lady cutting my hair today said this, "Life's what you make of it." We were talking about her 22 year old friend who almost died in a car accident. I said to her as I left that Life isn't what you make of it it's about the blessing and the curse and the decisions you make and what you believe to be True about God.

Peace,

Dave

[WayneB]

[What the description seems to leave out is the earmarks.

The earmarks are where the problems lay...

Burns me up!

Justin, I don't have faith in any man or system. Like Solomon, I believe that everything under the sun is corrupt and pure vanity.

I commend you, though, for being responsible with your finances. Unfortunately, you are in the minority of Americans and that is what has to change.

The tough thing...our business levels have dropped to a point that I have had to lay off some senior people. Real lives and being affected...real people. I think it is easy for everyone to hate the government and blame everyone else. The hard part is looking closer to home...

What is the old saying? We have met the enemy and he is us.

[traveller]

[What the description seems to leave out is the earmarks.

The earmarks are where the problems lay...

Burns me up!

Justin, I don't have faith in any man or system. Like Solomon, I believe that everything under the sun is corrupt and pure vanity.

I commend you, though, for being responsible with your finances. Unfortunately, you are in the minority of Americans and that is what has to change.

The tough thing...our business levels have dropped to a point that I have had to lay off some senior people. Real lives and being affected...real people. I think it is easy for everyone to hate the government and blame everyone else. The hard part is looking closer to home...

What is the old saying? We have met the enemy and he is us.

Yep - the layoffs are the hard thing. That happens quickly, and mostly without notice. That affects a broad spectrum of people. Businesses you wouldn't think would be in trouble suddenly restructure.

Most aren't prepared to start over. Especially, when there' s nowhere to go.