beyond reproach

[Guest ncorthopa]

In Titus 1 we find some insight into how a person should live "above reproach". They should not be over bearing, quick tempered, not given to drunkeness, not violent, not given to dishonest gain. It goes on to say rather the person should be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

A persons life style and relationships provides a window into their character. If you are honest, don't steal, don't cheat people, are a drunkard, then I would say you are living above reproach, which basically means you are living above "blame" for wrong doings.

Why do we need Christ in this? Because without Him would we strive to do what is right and Holy or would we just be the carnal man that Scripture tells us we are. "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Only when we have the blood of Christ applied to our lives can we truly say we are "blameless" because when God looks at us, he sees the blood of HIS SON, not our faults.

what do you mean by living above the "blame"

but also my question remains how can you live to a point where you are above any one's reproach where you are so good and holy that there is no one on earth that can reproach you. I almost sounds to me like this is where the Catholics place the pope. (no knock on catholics) but there is what it sounds like to me. Who is on this earth that is so almight that no one can rebuke him or her?

You are correct. In our sin, we can never be "beyond reproach". I believe that in the context of the quote about elders, they have been transformed to the point where nobody can find any "dirt" on them, much the same as Daniel in Daniel 6. People wanting him out of the way attempted to dig up dirt on him, but couldn't find it. So, they were forced to go to King Darius and ask him to make a verdict that everybody had to worship only him. They knew that Daniel would refuse, so that in this way, he would "break the law" and they'd have something to use against him.

You are correct. We all sin. You mentioned that we need Jesus because we all sin. I think that part of salvation is not only that "we all sin" -- but that I sin -- me, myself and my -- in such a way that I can never, ever get better. I can never do away with the love of sinning, the desire to please self, the rebellion at submitting to those higher than I (like God). Once I come to the end of "self" -- I repent. I turn away from "self" into a new direction. Self can never be improved. It must be killed. 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, "For He (God) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." In essence, an exchange takes place. God died physically as the Substitute for us, but God gave His righteousness to us, as we die spiritually. Galatians 2:20 says, "I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." We die spiritually. We are made a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17) in that our old sin nature is done away with, and replaced with God in us -- Jesus in us. "("Saints) to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory." John 15:4-5 says, "Abide in me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit, FOR WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING.'

People often believe that God saves us from our sins to eternal life, and He does. BUT the purpose of God's saving us is so that we can be transformed, living the life He calls us to live here and now. We are "saved" from "self" and sin to walk in newness of life here and now. We need Jesus not just to get to heaven -- but to live here on earth. The Bible says about this part of salvation:"Bue we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord...For God; who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. (2 Corinthians 3:18, 4:6-7)

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, AND GLORIFY YOUR FATHER, which is in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which god hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Good works do not save us -- we're hopeless and will always be because of the flesh (container for our souls and spirits). We follow the container more than what is inside. BUT, by faith, Jesus comes into our hearts with the Holy Spirit. They empower us and live through us to accomplish their will. People see our light -- the light of God in us -- living through us, and know that we are not responsible for good works -- GOD is through us, and so they give Him glory. But, as Christians, even though we are saved by grace -- apart from works, we are saved for the purpose of good works created by God. The problem is that without Him in us -- we can't DO them -- and THAT is why we need Jesus.

The longer we live by the faith in Jesus Death, Ressurection, and the power from them, the more people will see Him in us -- and that is where "beyond reproach" becomes a reality. You are correct -- our FLESH will NEVER be "beyond reproach" but our spirits and hearts are already if we've asked Jesus to come and rule -- and HE is always beyond reproach. People see that and give God the glory.

I hope this answers your question.

This does explain things a bit more. I think were I am tripping up is in the words "beyond reproach" In my study though not all translations are worded that way. I would be interested to know what the greek is. does any one know? The closest I have is the New American Translation. I will look there and report back in. I really appreciate everyones coments. It has really been tripping me up.

[irishcowboy]

as a Christ follower, we will find that as we grow stronger and closer to God (through Christ) we will be putting away the things of old and accepting the things of new. for we are now a NEW CREATION.

We were sinners. when Christ came into our lives, we were washed clean. made whole.

to live above reproach, to live blameless lives is not that hard. yes, we may even slip, or stumble, but, it is how we handle the situation.....

prior to being saved, we might have hit our head while in the attic and curse, after we might hit our thumb with a hammer and say; "THAT'S GOING TO LEAVE A MARK", or hit our head in the attic and say; "THAT'S USING MY HEAD" we no longer have the need to curse.

prior to being saved, we might have lunch and supper at the bar and grill down the street. after we have it at home or another place where booze is not served.

prior to being saved, we might choose to watch X, R, or even some PG movies, now we stick to G, and maybe a few select PG movies.

as we grown closer to God, the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT become stronger, are seen more and more by those around us.

to live above reproach, we have no dealings that will give cause for some one to "Finger Point" we do not place ourselves in a position of questionable dealings. we no longer visit the gentleman's club or go to the ladies night out clubs.

I do not even go into a bar and grill, no matter how good their Rubin sandwiches are, instead, i go to the deli down the street where only soft drinks and tea are served.

as a team, Teresa and me work together when dealing with children, and even teens, why? we will not allow any one to have any reason to be able to point fingers.....

The Word does not say stay innocent, it says stay blameless.... there is a difference.

in 1991, a man was charged with an indecent act, his name, picture and stuff were all over the front page of the paper, he was innocent of the deed. The media took off with a girls story and with out investigating the story first, they splattered his name, they convicted him before the authorities did their job. at the end of the investigation, it was found the girl had made the entire story up to keep from getting into trouble for not being home on time. this man was innocent, he received the blame..... as was stated, NONE OF US ARE INNOCENT of sin, we all have sinned and have all fallen short of the Glory of God, but, we can be blameless from this time forth.

things to keep in mind, if we keep our Yes as Yes, and our No as No, and do not joke around or even tell a little "WHITE" lie, there will be no question as to our word. people know my name, and my word and my reputation follows it as such. even this day, two years after I stopped plumbing, i have people coming up to me and asking me to come out and do some work for them. I tell them I have no insurance anymore and will not touch anything with out it, they then say, you do not need insurance with me...... not just one person, but dozens..... these are the same people that called me and tell me that they have an issue and that the front (or back) door is open and to come in and do what needs to be done. some have even left a check (with out the figures written in) for me to fill out when done and to leave a receipt.

if we do not tell off coloured jokes, and walk away from them that are telling them, we do not have to make a scene, just let them know that you do not appreciate that sort of joke, they will be more selective when talking around us.

if when we go to work, we spend more time at the water fountain, we will be known as slackards, but if we spend our day working, not as an hourly job, but as a contract job, we will find that we will be treated with more respect (not from our fellow workers, but from the administration, your fellow workers will talk and call you a brown nozer and will shun you) when you are being blamed for doing good, there is no shame in that....... the boss will see what is really going on.....

in prison, if a person is saved, the fellow prisoners will watch this person with a very sharp eye, and if the person is earnest, it will show up, if not, the gangs will take care of the situation...... the Fruit of the Spirit WILL SHOW THROUGH. if it does not, there is a problem.

Remember, Christianity is a journey, not as popular believe is a destination (look at the pews and look at those going door to door, or sharing with others, there are many many more warming pews as if they have arrived). it is a life, that a person starts out as an infant, then progresses to a toddler then to a preteen then teen then a young man or woman. and they then mature even more. if they do not, they are dying...... we have only two directions as a Christian, if you are not growing, you are dying..... there is no middle ground.

Christ sent us out in twos, to keep us out of trouble, we should never go out alone, but in twos. if doing some door to door work, it would be even better to have 4 people, two on one side of the street, and two on the other, this way, there is protection incase two get into a situation the other two can be there for quick assistance. in this day it is not a good idea to go anywhere by ones self.

mike

[Rhonda Lou]

This does explain things a bit more. I think were I am tripping up is in the words "beyond reproach" In my study though not all translations are worded that way. I would be interested to know what the greek is. does any one know? The closest I have is the New American Translation. I will look there and report back in. I really appreciate everyones coments. It has really been tripping me up.

[Guest]

Grace

Grace

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:8-10

Gives Trust

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths

Proverbs 3:5-6

Believing God Will Finish

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

Psalms 139:23-24

The Work He Started

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Jeremiah 29:11

Knowing Him

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Hebrews 4:9-10

Grace