Which "We" or "us" do he mean?

[kross]

I recently started a new Bible study with people who have been christians for years that I have never studied with. We are doing the book of Ephesians.

Now, I approach teaching Ephesians with some caution because it teaches in clear, straight forward words, a doctrine that many reject.

The first question of the study guide was, "What word do you see repeated the most"?

After a couple of days of thought and a couple of readings through the book, I realized the answer to that question is "we" and "us". I also came to a realization that many people's interpretation of the writings of Paul falls directly on the interpretation of these words in their context.

So, for those of you who will be reading and studying your Bibles for the first time, I have this one tip for you to get the truth of what is written. This is an English lesson. A basic understanding of sentence structure.

In the beginning of each letter/epistle is a salutation of who the letter is written to. Therefore, every place in the letter where the word "We" or "Us" is used, it must be inferred that it means the group who the author has written to that the author considers himself a part of.

So, taken to the point, "We" or "US" refers ONLY to the saints/ the Saved/ Those who are in CHRIST. When a person reads the letters from Paul, that person needs to understand that this letter is written specifically to them. It is a letter speifically written in such a way that "We" and "US" means the reader (if the reader is saved) and Paul. It can not be understood any other way. It is absolutely a violation of english (or Greek) writing laws to change the meaning of those words in the course of reading a letter.

I hope that helps some to overcome what they percieve as conflict in scriptures.

Now, here is a test. Read the first 6 verses of Ephesians in that understanding. Everywhere you see "We" or "us" translate it to "the saved" or make it personal, "you" or "I".

Have fun with that.

HIS peace and love to all.

[Guest man]

So, taken to the point, "We" or "US" refers ONLY to the saints/ the Saved/ Those who are in CHRIST.

Who would interpret it any other way?

Now, I approach teaching Ephesians with some caution because it teaches in clear, straight forward words, a doctrine that many reject.

Aren't all his letters like that?

[kross]

So, taken to the point, "We" or "US" refers ONLY to the saints/ the Saved/ Those who are in CHRIST.

Who would interpret it any other way?

Now, I approach teaching Ephesians with some caution because it teaches in clear, straight forward words, a doctrine that many reject.

Aren't all his letters like that?

Can you paraphrase what Eph 1:4-5 says in the light of that understanding?

[kross]

Aren't all his letters like that?

Paul's letters fall into the category of 'task' theology; in other words, each epistle was written to address a specific situation.

The earliest texts of Ephesians do not include the phrase "To the church in Ephesis" . So, it may be that the letter was written "To the Saints" period.

Now, I do not believe this,(in that I beleive the earlier transcripts are copies of copies of the letter to the Ephesians that were copied to circulate to the other churches) but Ephesians is the one letter that covers the entire scope of the doctrins of Christianity (for the most part) in clear concise language.

[Guest man]

Can you paraphrase what Eph 1:4-5 says in the light of that understanding?

Ephesians 1

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

I believe it to mean just what it says, we were chosen and predestined to be followers of Christ.

I don't believe it says that we would automatically become followers of Christ. If you notice, it says "that we should be holy...", not that we will, but we should. That one word leaves the door open for someone to choose. One can be holy and blameless or they can choose not too.

Matthew 22

14

[Guest man]

Aren't all his letters like that?

Paul's letters fall into the category of 'task' theology; in other words, each epistle was written to address a specific situation.

That may be true, but I don't believe they are hard to understand.

[kross]

Can you paraphrase what Eph 1:4-5 says in the light of that understanding?

Ephesians 1

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

I believe it to mean just what it says, we were chosen and predestined to be followers of Christ.

I don't believe it says that we would automatically become followers of Christ. If you notice, it says "that we should be holy...", not that we will, but we should. That one word leaves the door open for someone to choose. One can be holy and blameless or they can choose not too.

Matthew 22

14

[Guest zabby]

As one grows in our Lord and in faith, we learn the value of language. Understanding sentences is a part of studying the scripturs. Then there is the part of understanding the customs of the day that the paticulalr wordiest help also and then we still need to Remember I Corinthian 13 ,,,,, on our best day we know in part... There is a section in Kings that seems contradictory until you know that 2 different types of calanders where used in the explaining of who was king and when..... Also the geniologies one in Matthew and one in Luke both are for Jesus but contain different name, until one realizes that the man's name in that day was used instead of the wife's so one list is that of Jesus'via Josegh and one is Jesus' via Mary his morther. It was all about custom of the day...... It pays to study, yet it is better to love and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians is a great study....

[kross]

As one grows in our Lord and in faith, we learn the value of language. Understanding sentences is a part of studying the scripturs. Then there is the part of understanding the customs of the day that the paticulalr wordiest help also and then we still need to Remember I Corinthian 13 ,,,,, on our best day we know in part... There is a section in Kings that seems contradictory until you know that 2 different types of calanders where used in the explaining of who was king and when..... Also the geniologies one in Matthew and one in Luke both are for Jesus but contain different name, until one realizes that the man's name in that day was used instead of the wife's so one list is that of Jesus'via Josegh and one is Jesus' via Mary his morther. It was all about custom of the day...... It pays to study, yet it is better to love and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians is a great study....

AMEN

[Guest man]

If you look at the Greek for this text, "Many are called, but few are chosen" you will see that the same word translated The Called, The elect, The Chosen is translated here as chosen.

The more understandable interpretation of the scripture is, "Many are called, but few are The Called". (Or The Chosen, The Elect)

Explain the difference between someone who is actually saved and someone who is chosen.

Your use of the scripture from Timothy is a little out of context. Paul is teaching Timothy that GOD wants people from all incomes and positions to be saved, not every person on earth. If he was sying that, then he would conflict with JESUS' statement that all that the FATHER has given HIM will come to HIM..

"All incomes and positions".....wouldn't that pretty much include everyone?

1 Timothy 2

1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,

2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

I think your understanding of the word "should" in modern vernacular is possibly standing in the way of full understanding.

I don't think it is.

You may want to do a study of the Greek word here.

I think I'm good right where I'm at.