The Earth became? formless and empty

[hayahtowb]

Hi Tehilah Ba' Aretz,

I studied Biblical Hebrew in Bible College with one of the finest Biblical Hebrew scholars alive today, Dr. Stanley Horton. That was a long time ago, of course. It is true that there are differences between Biblical Hebrew and modern Hebrew. For one thing, Biblical Hebrew does not have as many words. Modern Hebrew is a living language that changes and grows with time and use. Literally all of Biblical Hebrew is included in Modern Hebrew but the styles and some forms used in ancient times have been adapted in modern Hebrew. There are also some changes that would continue today but do not because we don't have anyone around writing out passages of revelation from God that I know about. You see, the Biblical record of God's speeches show that God reversed the tenses of time. God's past is our future so as to speak. (No, that is not what happened in Genesis one.)

The boldness of your post is like a breath of fresh air, so in reducing ourselves to the inflection of the oldest texts we have, you know as well as the rest of us it's guided by the context of the words, and thousands of scholars well steeped in the Hebrew language long before you or I were born recognize not just a change, but a precise brake or pause (if you like) between verses 1 & 2 of Genesis 1, and in todays bibles we use a period.

I'll repeate nebula's question (because it's a good question), can you please tell us how and why you see this diffrently? And don't forget your enthusiastic fresh air, I like it.

Loving God

is good

[Celt]

Hi Celt.

According to the book of Hebrews, God made time ((chapter1.2) the ages/worlds), and expersses Himself as in three diffrent ages of times, example: Revelations 1.8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD, Which is, and Which was, and Which is to come, the Almighty." In fact Christ teaches about the diffrent ages in: Matthew 13.39-40, and 28.20~ Mark 10.30~ Luke 16.8; 18.30; 20.35-36

He also tells us the world (not ages) has no end: Ephesians 3.21

I'll end with saying the word "heaven" in genesis is plural because it's in contrast with the earth, and refers to diffrent ages of time. I think it was Lucifer's lie in Isiah 14.12-13 that caused God to judge His creation between Genesis 1 and 2, bringing about the creation of the flesh, to able to choose between life and death.

Thanks for the post.

Yes, that's pretty much the way I grasp it. But I didn't come to that understanding until I got down and really studied all The Bible. For most of my life I understood that part of Genesis 1 the way most do. I truly believe an idea in God's Word should exist even within a translation if it's really there, regardless of whether the tense of 'was' or 'became' is clear from the Hebrew. There should be other indicators also, even within a translation, unless the translation is so full of slang that it strays far away from the original text.

Gen 1:2

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(KJV)

I asked myself if only abiding by the KJV Old English translation, was the gap concept really there. Even with using a secular view of the earth being "without form, and void", in the sense of a nebula being formed which starts out in a gaseous state, then at what location were those "face of the waters" that are mentioned just after we are told the earth was without form, and void? In other words, if "without form, and void" means the earth was not created yet, then where were those "waters" that are mentioned in that same verse?

Later in Gen.1, God separates those same "waters" into two parts, and then moves one part and suddenly the dry land (earth) appears, meaning from underneath the waters. If the "without form, and void" translation does apply, then it still suggests an already created earth was underneath those "waters" in Gen.1:2, because there is no emphatic statement of God creating the earth past Gen.1:1.

The apostle Paul hinted at the earth being subjected to a waste state in Romans 8 when talking about the "creature" (creation).

Rom 8:18-25

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Paul used the Greek word 'ktisis' for "creature" there, which later in verse 22 it's rendered as "creation". The idea is that God's creation is waiting for the future time of the manifestation of the sons of God, i.e., the new heavens and a new earth.

Rom.8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,

If someone recalls reading Isaiah 45:18, where God said He did not create the earth in vain, or a state of vanity, then that 20th verse should raise a major flag. Paul is pointing to that 'towhu va bohuw' back in Gen.1:2. God said He didn't create the earth tohuw, but here Paul says God did do so, and even subjected the creation in hope of a future time. So which event of creation is meant here? I think Dr. Strong understood this, and is why he gave the definition of 'ktsis' as 'original formation' for "creature".

Rom.8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

The question is, just when did God subject the creation ("creature") to bondage of corruption, or a state of vanity? And if that was done "not willingly", it means something that happenned caused God to subject the creation to bondage. It also suggests a time when the creation was not in a state of bondage or vanity, and a future return to its original foundation.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

The whole creation seeks for a release from the state of vanity it's been subjected to. That suggests the creation was not originally in that bondage state. And again, God said He did not create the earth 'tohuw' (vain in Isa.45:18, but translated as "without form, and void" in Gen.1:2 and Jer.4:23).

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

(KJV)

That same kind of suggestion is at the end of Hebrews 12 also...

Heb 12:25-29

25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."

27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

(KJV)

We're given a clue here about a time when God shook the earth. And the main thing is, that we're given an example of the level of destruction and strength of that shaking, a level that is to remove those things that can be shaken, of things that are made (like man's works on the earth), so that those things that cannot be shaken may remain. The question is, just when was that previous shaking on that kind of level with "Yet once more"? Jeremiah 4:23-28 mentions that, which has that tohuw va bohuw phrase about the earth's state ("without form, and void").

[hayahtowb]

We're given a clue here about a time when God shook the earth. And the main thing is, that we're given an example of the level of destruction and strength of that shaking, a level that is to remove those things that can be shaken, of things that are made (like man's works on the earth), so that those things that cannot be shaken may remain. The question is, just when was that previous shaking on that kind of level with "Yet once more"? Jeremiah 4:23-28 mentions that, which has that tohuw va bohuw phrase about the earth's state ("without form, and void").

When God created the ages (heavens) the heavenly hosts were with Him, as in: Let Us create mankind in Our image and likeness. I believe we were there, and in Ephesians 1.4 we see the same thing.

Remember (John 3.3) Christ told Nicodemus that he had to be born again (from above), and from water (woman), I take this to be the same, I also think that heaven (wherever God is) was on earth first, and is going to return again.

We have a choice to make between life and death, get ready for another shaking (Matthew 24.21).