Is Christmas really Christian?

[nebula]

Is it OK to have photos to remind you of people and events?

Why wouldn't it?

Why would it not be OK to have something visual to remind you of your spiritual walk as well?

I didn't say it was not ok for you.

I said that "I", choose not to do that.

I don't need visual reminders of who God is or what He's done.

I don't understand the logic.

It's OK to surround yourself with items that point to people and things, but not items that point you to Jesus?

That's what I don't understand.

[nebula]

I think people are missing the point of what Neb is making regarding the use of a symbol.

I think people are missing the point of what Neb is making regarding the use of a symbol.

For what it's worth Shiloh, I agree.

Thank-you , Shiloh and Sam.

[sheya joie]

Hi...His-Will-Be-Done....(phew, heavy sounding name you have there)

Ok...so you don't want to do Christmas...fine.

Maybe you could make allowances for your weaker brethren who do so, not out of rebellion

or in response to an idolatrous heart...but through traditions, that now incorporate the story

and celebration of the birth of Messiah...and who enjoy a good family get together.

Yes there is alot of commercialism involved, and excess...but we don't have to allow

ourselves to go overboard...mind you I bet I have too much turkey again!

In love...In Messiah. Botz

I'm sorry...you consider those who celebrate Christmas as "weaker brethren"?

The way I read it, Bibs, I got the impression that Botz used the term 'weaker brethren' not because Botz sees them that way, but because Botz figured His-Will-Be-Done would see them that way.

If that makes sense?

[other one]

You site several secular references to how the birthdate of Jesus is determined and its very interesting. If you could prove your point solely from Scripture then you would be on to something.

If you just look at what is posted from the book of Luke it does prove the point. The other stuff is just a background to show support.

Year:

Luke, who tied Jesus' 30th year to the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar, 27-28 AD.

Day:

In Luke's time, Yom Kippur was called three things: The day of the "Fast," the day

of the "Purification,"and the day of "Redemption." Luke uses all three to identify the

day Jesus was brought to the Temple. And he even quotes the Torah rule that mandates

the 40-day period for the mother to wait after the child's birth [Lk 2:22-38].

And if there were any doubt that it was Yom Kippur, Luke tells of a woman named

Anna who had been in the Temple for a "night and day" without leaving. There was

ONLY ONE DAY A YEAR when a person could pray overnight in the Temple: Yom

Kippur. All other days, the Temple was locked at sundown.

This shows the 40th day of Mary's Purification had begun at the end of Yom Kippur,

the end of the 10th day of the 7th month, because we know the Purification was done at

the earliest opportunity--at the beginning of the 40th day after birth. And since the 6th

month normally had only 29 days, simple arithmatic shows Mary's 39 days of Purification

had to have begun around sundown on the 1st day of the 6th month, called Elul.

Then you get a computer to translate which day on the Jewish calender matches up with which day on the calender we use and you get it.

The rest of the things in the article is just showing outside things that agree with Luke (for those non christian types that might not trust the Bible)

[Guest man]

It's OK to surround yourself with items that point to people and things, but not items that point you to Jesus?

I personally, don't need anything to point me to Jesus. I know exactly where He is.

Items that point to people and things are of this world. I'm not saying they're evil, because I do have pictures of my children. I don't live in an empty box.

But when it comes to my faith, I don't need "things" to remind of God. And please don't think that I'm saying you have to follow my example, because you don't. It is something that "I", choose to do. I have my reasons for living the way I do. Here are four of them.

2 Corinthians 4

18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Romans 8

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?

25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

2 Corinthians 5

7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.

Hebrews 11

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Now if you disagree with me, that's fine. I'm not saying you can't. I realize not everyone sees scripture in the same light as everyone else and I'm learning to live with that. I don't push my beliefs on anyone. I'll tell you where I stand and why.

I live according to what the Lord has laid upon my heart. I don't claim to be all knowing, there's only One of those and I'm not the one. I'm still learning. But I have to say, with all the things that are happing in my life, I must be doing something right.

As for reminders, I have my memories and the Word, and for me that's enough.

I know you don't understand that, but there's nothing I can do about that.

[mizzdy]

I personally, don't need anything to point me to Jesus. I know exactly where He is.

But when it comes to my faith, I don't need "things" to remind of God.

I know where you are coming from, I don't have anything in my house such as a cross etc. I have very few pics of family hanging in my house either. I do have reminders of memories scattered around my house and if pushed within my memories I might say that the rock I found or piece of drift wood reminds me of the peace in God I had that day but that is if I spend any time reflecting on those objects. Like you Man, its all in my heart and I don't need anything to remind me. Yet in many ways when I just look out my window and see that tree starting to grow strong that reminds me of God. When I examine this a bit further I realize that none of the people in my family have crosses or the like in their homes either.

[Massorite]

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE THREE WISE MEN

(Not once in scripture does it specify the number of wise men)

Matthew 2:1-2

[Massorite]

FACT

DID YOU KNOW XMAS USE TO BE OUTLAWED IN ENGLAND AND IN PARTS OF THE U.S?

Yes I did know that. Want to know the "rest of the story?"

The reason that CHRISTmas was outlawed was because just a few hundred years ago, Christmas did not resemble anything like it does today.

300 - 400 years ago, Christmas was a day for drunkness, adultery, prostitution and so forth. More crime was committed in that season. It was out of this sinful lifestyle that the "Wassailing" tradition was derived.

At that time, it was not about Christmas trees and carols and the trappings we currently associate with the holiday.

THIS DATE WAS ORIGINALLY CELEBRATED TO COMMEMORATE THE ABOMINABLE BIRTH OF MITHRAS A PAGAN SUN DIETY. CHRISTMAS IS COMPOSED ENTIRELY OF PAGANISM CLOAKED WITH A DISPLAY OF PSEUDO-CHRISTIANITY

Funny how absolutely NO archeological evidence has ever been dug up to confirm this. I am always amused at all of the carryings-on about this. If our current Christmas celebrations were the outgrowth of ancient paganism, then we should be able to find evidence of said traditions in ancient archeological records, but we don't.

(Read Carefully: The next verse confirms that Jesus Christ had already been born for at least two years prior to the visitation of the wise men at his home not at the manger. King Herod ordered the slaying of children in Bethlehem two years old and under according to the period of time that he had been informed that Christ was said to be already living on the Earth.)

The entire birth narrative, including the story of the wisemen, the flight into Egypt right up to Jesus being dedicated at the Temple, all of that took place inside of 30 days, NOT two years as we know them to be.

DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU?

[Ovedya]

I'd say that Sholoh's doing a pretty good job of dashing those to pieces.

[Guest shiloh357]

Keep going His Will. There is plenty of undesputed historical proof to back up you evidence.

Yeah, and when I ask you and His Will for the actual historical/archeological evidence that supports your assertions, you get angry and whine that you are being "attacked."

You are threatened by anyone that actually puts forth a substantive challenge. The problem with the cult mentality is that it cannot handle questions. You want your so-called "facts" accepted in entirery, no questions asked.

If you had the truth, qustions would not threaten you. If you provide one shred of honest historical verification outside conspiracy webistes and such, then you might have something.

So far, any request made of you to actually support your historical claims with verifiable historical data on record is met with anger and hostility and then you run off and play the persecution/martyr card and ignore the challenge so that you don't have to own up to the inherent weakness and falseness in your historical claims.

As it stands, your position cannot be shown by you or anyone else to be true and there is no reason that your position should be taken seriously by intelligent, thinking people.