"State of the Church today"

[Guest aka_mary]

My point about the church being in a state is this.

We argue about when to fellowhip.

Why we fellowships

Hymns or contempory christian worship

rules, rules, and more rules.

Each and every denomination feels like they've got the right and only way

speaking in tongues

miracles

signs and wonders

prophecy

dreams and visions

I break's my heart to see such things happening. I know it is the nature of man. I know that God fortold it. Sometimes all we need to be doing is praying. God know's best. Instead we place everything under a microscope,and analize it.

In my opinion the most evident sign of this happening is in regards to miracles, signs and wonders.

The lost are craving answers. The paranormal is on the rise. The enemy is filling his camp. The church for the most part is in denial of this. Won't acknowledge that the supernatural is alive and well.

We've got the real thing. The lost don't need a physic, they need Jesus. The conterfiet is running amuk. If the lost want to see miracles lets give it to them. The first one being the redemption of their souls!!!

Karen

[Jedi4Yahweh]

BoldlyProclaimingChrist,

So basicly your saying that the Chucrhs is going out in defeat and that if that is any hint of a revival its deception.

I understand that your believe that speaking in tongues is a deceptions. But my point is who cares if you speaking in tongues or not as longs as your living Godly and Christ like. I dont judge people by if the speak in tongues or not.

I am sorry that you see the church as defeateed and that Christ is coming back for a defeated bride. I guess thats why you only look for escape (rapture) instead of preaching the gospel and seeing Gods kingdom be established in victory.

Good thing not all christians live in doubt and think like you.

[BoldlyProclaimingChrist]

We are absolutely going to be defeated and overcome for it is written. Now as far as tongues - I never said anything about that. I believe in tongues, or speaking in other tongues with an interpreter - not sure where you got that from. The article was explaining latter rain.

You wrote:

I guess thats why you only look for escape (rapture) instead of preaching the gospel and seeing Gods kingdom be established in victory.

I never said anything of the sort - please don't put words in my mouth. FYI I am pre-wrath not pre-trib. And when did I say ANYTHING about not preaching the gospel???? It's like you're responding to a different post.

Calm down, we can disagree, I'm on your side really.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Boldly,

I retrieved the following from older posts and I believe it to be one of the better articles on the Sabbath:

Wordsower post on May 15 2004, 07:15 PM

THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH: 1

WHAT IS THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH?

Our English word sabbath derives from the Greek sabbaton, which in turn derives from the Hebrew sabbat. A sabbath is "a cessation from activity; rest." Our question therefore is "What is the Christian's rest? In what does he cease from work?"

The Christian sabbath is not the "sabbath of creation" mentioned in Genesis 2:1-3: "... And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done...." This is the first mention of a sabbath in the Bible. It was a day of rest. This sabbath is not the Christian sabbath because:

1) It was observed by God alone at the completion of His work of creation (1:1-2:1). Furthermore, this sabbath of God was not merely a day of rest, but a perpetual rest, as His work of creation was once-for-all completed (2:1). Man, who had been created on the sixth day (1:26-31), could not rest from work on this day because he had done no work.

2) The Bible contains no commandment from God to man to observe a weekly sabbath/rest for thousands of years after creation, until about 1500 BC. And there is no Biblical record that such a weekly sabbath was ever observed by Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, or any of their contemporaries.

The Christian sabbath is not the "sabbath of manna-gathering" mentioned in Exodus 16:23-30. This was the first commandment from God to man to observe a weekly sabbath. It was given to the newly-constituted nation Israel during their wanderings from Egypt to the Promised Land. God promised them a daily portion of manna, or bread from heaven, for the first six days of every week, but none for the seventh. The seventh day was to be a day of rest. Therefore, God commanded Israel to gather a double portion of manna on the sixth day to suffice for the seventh.

This "sabbath of manna-gathering" is not the Christian sabbath because both it and the manna were given only to the nation Israel, not to Gentile nations.

The Christian sabbath is not the "sabbath of the Ten Commandments" mentioned in Exodus 20:1-7:

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy...." (vv.8-11).

The Ten Commandments were the code of law which set forth Israel's responsibility to God under the covenant He made with them at Mount Sinai (19:3-8; 34:28b). The "sabbath of the Ten Commandments" is not the Christian sabbath because:

1) It and the Ten Commandments and the Sinaitic Covenant were given only to Israel, that nation whom "God ... brought ... out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" (20:1f).

2) The Sinaitic Covenant is no longer in effect because it has been abrogated and superseded by the New Covenant instituted by Jesus Christ (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Matthew 26:26-28; Hebrews 8; 10:11-18). Since the Old Covenant is no longer in effect, the sabbath it required is also no longer in effect. Consequently, those who enter into this New Covenant with God through belief in Jesus Christ are told to ignore those who judge them for not observing sabbaths (Colossians 2:16). Furthermore, God approves the believer who "esteems every day alike" (Romans 14:5).

The Christian sabbath is that of the New Covenant.

It is not one day of the week. It is rather that spiritual rest which is found in Jesus Christ, the Mediator and Surety of this "better covenant" (Hebrews 7:22; 8:6). He has fulfilled all the work God required for the salvation of His people (John 19:30), and therefore rested from all His saving work. Everyone who trusts in Him for salvation enters into His rest, and forevermore ceases working to obtain God's blessings (Matthew 11:28). "There remains therefore a rest [or sabbath-keeping] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall ... [in] unbelief" (Hebrews 4:9-11).

Have you entered into the sabbath of Jesus Christ?

Those who believe do enter that rest - "Today". Hebrews 4

Please study these things out for yourself.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Sorry if i sound like I am being up tight but but really I am not.

Yes, I agree that we can disagree that good and healthy conversation.

[BoldlyProclaimingChrist]

Thank you Ernie,

I will be sure to read it when I get time later.

Jedi.... :hug:

[BoldlyProclaimingChrist]

Is the Sabbath Jewish?

It is a common misconception that the Sabbath is "Jewish" and "Old Covenant," probably because most Christians, worshipping on Sunday, believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday for His followers. Nothing could be further from the truth!

There are two primary biblical reasons why the seventh-day Sabbath is not Jewish. We find the first in Exodus 19-20. Notice Exodus 19:6:

"And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.

Then, in Exodus 20:8, God commands Israel to "remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Though it may seem a fine point, the Jews are not all of Israel but only one tribe among twelve (see Exodus 1:1-7). All Israel was to keep the Sabbath, but most of the tribes apostatized, so that by Jesus' day, only Judah, Benjamin, and Levi kept it. One could say, therefore, that the Sabbath is "Israelite," but this would still be partially wrong.

The apostle Paul takes great pains to show that Israel, for the time being, has been set aside as the "nation" with whom He is primarily working (Romans 9-11). He begins his theological argument by saying that the church of God is now the new Israel (Romans 9:6-8). All those who follow the faith of Abraham are Abraham's spiritual descendants (Romans 4:13-17; see Galatians 3:29; 4:22-31). In Galatians 6:16, Paul specifically calls the church "the Israel of God." Therefore, the commandments of God

[BoldlyProclaimingChrist]

What Does God Command About a Day of Worship?

The clearest instance of God's command to keep one day of worship is found within the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. (verses 8-11)

These four verses contain a wealth of vital principles regarding the Sabbath day, but these five stand out:

1. We are to remember and keep the Sabbath.

2. The seventh day is God's Sabbath.

3. On the seventh-day Sabbath, those who observe it are to do no work, nor should any under his authority or on his premises

[BoldlyProclaimingChrist]

Why Is the Sabbath a Day of Rest?

The earliest reference to the seventh-day Sabbath occurs in Genesis 2:1-3:

Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

As Exodus 20:11 reiterates, the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation, particularly the seventh day of that week, in which God rested as an example to mankind. God used the first six days of Creation Week to complete His labors, and on the seventh day, He rested, blessing and hallowing that time for a different kind of pursuit. Therefore, God commands mankind to observe the day similarly

[His son]

Jesus fulfilled all the sacrificial, dietary, and ritual laws, their purpose being ended. Which purpose was the school master pricipal. Paul tells us that since Christ we are all free to choose our diets as long as we give thanks for God's provision, and consider what is expedient for us. He says we are also free to choose what day we will honor as that day of rest, each man according to his own will. This all fits with God's desire that we do all things as an act of love rather than as a fleshly act of obedience for fleshly profit. As always man just can't accept the simplicity of so much of The Gospel with is written to the intellect of all levels. This is one of satans most sucessfull deceptions to keep us involved in our own ego. One of the main things we ignore is the fact that Jesus didn't do away with, He fulfilled, which means they are no longer necessary, because of His revelation of our ability to love Him as He loved us, which will result in a natural obedience to those which were not fulfilled. This was explained to us by Christ when He told us that all the law, and prophets hang on the two love commandments. But that of course is just to simple for mans superior intellect, and must be explained by that intellect. Why do you suppose Christ said my yoke is easy, and my burden is light? Could it be that it's because He sent The Holy Spirit to instruct each one of us individually, and also to empower us to keep those two commandments. This of course is an insult to those who God has supposedly called to make sure the less fortunate in education understand what God means by all those words. Instead of doing what God has really called all shepherds to do. The true shepherds know where the green pastures are, and that's what they lead the sheep to, but the sheep do their own eating, and digesting. The shepherds just can't do that for them.