Where does 'good' come from?

[~JM~]

A quote from Gordon H. Clark, Predestination, Presbyterian & Reformed, 1987, pp. 185-188:

The Scofield Bible is a good example of how Arminians try to escape from the plain meaning of the verse. Scofield says,

[Fraught]

Legoman

But you speak as if God has not planned (or at least knows) every detail of our lives.

I went out of my way to make sure that nobody misunderstood me in that regard.

First paragraph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Sorry Dave, I don't really think that was a straw man arguement. And actually I didn't mean that you believe God doesn't know everything. But to say that God created men who he knew would be evil is somehow different than creating men to be evil, is really splitting hairs. Either way it was in God's intent that men be evil. Its not like God didn't have any control over what the man would do. That was my point, not some silly straw man argument. Anyway forget it if you want. My intent is not to misrepresent anyone, only understand the truth as described in scripture, so please do not be offended.

Only if you literally accept that King of Babylon was in Heaven, or that Satan was in heaven. John 3:13 says no one was in heaven except for the Son of God.

Nobody *ascended* to heaven except the Son of God. Big difference.

Fair enough point. But clearly the King of Babylon was never literally in heaven. Inferring that it means Satan, instead of interpreting it as meaning the King of Babylon was figuratively in heaven, is the real question.

As for the rest, your answers are in my previous posts.

Dave

Well, I think you have avoided several of my questions. But that is ok.

Did you have any thoughts on why God created darkness and how darkness is "very good"? (Other than being "very good" for its purpose?)

And I would really love to know your comment on these scriptures (which I didn't see in any of your responses):

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Maybe I missed your answer, but to me they all clearly show God created Satan to be what he is, and that was God's intent and purpose. That for me is the real deal killer of the lucifer myth that is read into Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.

Cheers,

Legoman

did God create darkness? scriptures tell us there was darkness in the beginning & God created light. later He created the sun, moon & stars. best to ponder on this first 'light' that he created.

so, what darkness are you speaking of? nighttime? there's only good at nighttime. most creatures must sleep. some must have the cover of nighttime to hunt and so to eat. plants must rest and not continually photosynthesisize (i made up that word ) also, the stars can only declare the Glory of God at nighttime.

[legoman]

Legoman

But you speak as if God has not planned (or at least knows) every detail of our lives.

I went out of my way to make sure that nobody misunderstood me in that regard.

First paragraph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Sorry Dave, I don't really think that was a straw man arguement. And actually I didn't mean that you believe God doesn't know everything. But to say that God created men who he knew would be evil is somehow different than creating men to be evil, is really splitting hairs. Either way it was in God's intent that men be evil. Its not like God didn't have any control over what the man would do. That was my point, not some silly straw man argument. Anyway forget it if you want. My intent is not to misrepresent anyone, only understand the truth as described in scripture, so please do not be offended.

Only if you literally accept that King of Babylon was in Heaven, or that Satan was in heaven. John 3:13 says no one was in heaven except for the Son of God.

Nobody *ascended* to heaven except the Son of God. Big difference.

Fair enough point. But clearly the King of Babylon was never literally in heaven. Inferring that it means Satan, instead of interpreting it as meaning the King of Babylon was figuratively in heaven, is the real question.

As for the rest, your answers are in my previous posts.

Dave

Well, I think you have avoided several of my questions. But that is ok.

Did you have any thoughts on why God created darkness and how darkness is "very good"? (Other than being "very good" for its purpose?)

And I would really love to know your comment on these scriptures (which I didn't see in any of your responses):

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Maybe I missed your answer, but to me they all clearly show God created Satan to be what he is, and that was God's intent and purpose. That for me is the real deal killer of the lucifer myth that is read into Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.

Cheers,

Legoman

did God create darkness? scriptures tell us there was darkness in the beginning & God created light. later He created the sun, moon & stars. best to ponder on this first 'light' that he created.

so, what darkness are you speaking of? nighttime? there's only good at nighttime. most creatures must sleep. some must have the cover of nighttime to hunt and so to eat. plants must rest and not continually photosynthesisize (i made up that word ) also, the stars can only declare the Glory of God at nighttime.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Gen 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Here we see that God created the heavens and the earth, and darkness was over the surface of the deep.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Notice here that God creates darkness.

I view it this way. God himself could be viewed as pure light. If God hadn't created darkness, everything would be lit up constantly. There would be light everywhere.

I agree with your examples of why darkness is good. It is good for the purposes it is created - that is my point. Everything was created "good" for the purposes that God intended.

Darkness can be for His good purposes, but there isn't only good at night. Many crimes are committed at night that otherwise wouldn't be committed. Many people become lost or die at night who wouldn't have otherwise if it had been light out. Darkness causes people to trip and stumble.

Now you might say that we need darkness so we can sleep or so that plants can photosynthesize etc. But that leads to the question - why did God make plants require darkness in order to breath? God could have easily conceived a creation that didn't require darkness. But that was not His plan. His plan requires darkness.

God created darkness for His purposes - and that was very good.

Anyway back to the main point: when it says "it was very good" in Gen 1:31 - it doesn't mean everything was morally good. It means everything was very good for the purpose that God intended.

JMHO

Legoman