The Word-Faith Movement

[Guest Thinkman1]

I suppose most denominational churches believe Jesus went to hell as part of the atonement. If you consider this one of the "essentials" of doctrine, to believe that Jesus didn't go to hell as part of the atonement, then you couldn't brand WOF as being outside of the pale of orthodoxy for their stance on this.

So like WOF, many denominations have doctrine that we may consider faulty at best, or heretical at the worst. I hear many good arguments on both sides that could cause me to lean one or the other on any given day. But having been part of the WOF and Charismatic movement for ten years, I've seen so many people believing, planting seed, confessing, professing, spiritual warfaring, shouting it out, burning debt notes, laying on prayer clothes, following prophecy after prophecy because they "missed it," etc.

When I bring to the attention, of some friends of mine, the long list of people I've known over the years who have not materialized into what this movement had led them to believe, the most common response I get is that Abraham was 99 before he saw the promise fulfilled.

It gets fairly confusing from there so a good barometer I've found is the fact people in WOF/Charismatic generally won't talk about it. If you disagree with something said in a sermon you wouldn't dare mention it. And this could not be a healthy fear.

I understand that you don't have to be educated or attend seminary to preach the Word. But if we can't ask and explore questions we run the risk of entrusting the few learned ones with the task of telling us what is to be acceptable. I saw the movie about Luther recently and drew many chilling comparisons from the abuse of Church leadership in that day with many of those in leadership of the WOF/Charismatics today.

[gypc]

The problem with WOF is the core teaching. It makes God a little lower and man a little higher. Are there any good teachings in the WOF? Yes..........but that's what makes it hard to discern when your involved.

They paint a picture of "God on the outside looking in" and only able to do something if we give him legal right because he's bound by law.

They say that we christians are little gods and Jesus had to be born again.

Ken Copeland actually believes and teaches that "God was the biggest failure in the Bible" He also teaches that Jesus was sexually abused by the roman gaurds and when Jesus died on "the cross it was not enough to atone for our sins"........"his wormy spirit was drug down to hell by demons"

Need I go on?

Ken Hagin also believes that the cross was not enough to atone. For this reason alone.......WOF should be considered a false doctrine but there's so much more.

I was watching the last praiseathon and Paul Crouch actually looked at the camera and said "If you have ever been healed or have gotten a blessing through TBN and you don't give any money to this ministry, you will lose the blessing"

These false teachers use manipulation to get money.

I was involved with this movement for years and finally broke free....thanks be to Jesus.

We are called to expose false doctrine......we are commanded to "watch out that no one decieves us"

Do I believe we should speak the Word by faith? Yes! I do.........but this WOF doctrine is false and denies the sovernty of God. Jesus did not have to be born again because HE IS GOD!!!!!!!!

[amazingrace]

What IS doctrines of demons is that God has given us doctors, drugs, psychiatrists, medicines.

Oh, puhhlleease! I suppose that Luke was demon possessed? He was a doctor ya know! And he told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake. He didn't say go see Benny Hinn to get prayed for. He suggested a remedy-a drug if you will or a medicine.

Actually, it was Paul who suggested the wine to Timothy. (but Luke would have probably have agreed). And I agree with the rest of your post.

[yomotalking]

Not again....there are plenty of threads already started on this subject.  If your feeling in the mood to attack and judge please join one them.

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Oh...PLEEEEEASE!!!!!

[JewishHeart]

I learn to take the good and spit out the bad. What the enemy does often is he sows tares among the wheats of every movement so we can destroy the whole field.

The WOF movement has many needed and biblical emphasis and to deny these would be to stunt our christian growth:

1.) The Authority of the Believer (in balance).

2.) Identity in Messiah (in balance)

3.) Charismatic experience based on the word and not just on revelation

4.) Biblical Prosperity (in Balance)

5.) Positive Confession (In Balance)

6.) Faith

I personally would rather have a WOFer praying for me if I were sick than anybody else.

However, the authority of the believer has turned us into bossing around G-d, our identity in Messiah has turned into becoming mini-gods, biblical prosperity has been used to appease people's greed and to manipulate the sheep to make the ministers live ridiculously lavish lifestyles, and positive confession has turned into denial and naiivity, and faith has turned into this ultra-hyper-faith that only the super-christians can accomplish.

I think Kenneth Hagin Sr himself warned against fringe WOF beliefs starting with Prosperity when he wrote "Midas Touch." I believe him to be a man of G-d that had a revelation of truth, but many took his teachings overboard.

However,

I need to know the authority Messiah has delegated to me to set people free and to provide healing in situations. I need to know who I am in Messiah in order to walk with confidence before G-d and men, I need to know that in everything G-d wants my best and is not out to make me poor so I can receive G-d's blessings just to give more to the kingdom (to those ministries that are really bearing fruit and winning souls- missionaries, etc.). I need to know that my words have power and to watch what I say as life and death are in the tongue... I don't need to go overboard by being in denial, however, I do not need to confess curses over my family and watch myself from saying things like , " she is dislexic" when she is only 2 and having trouble reading. I need to confess positively and when she is diagnosed, don't be in denial and recognize the situaiton, but pray for her healing in faith. I need to know how to operate in the faith as a mustard seed to pray for the sick and hurting in this world. We can learn this if we learn to spit out the bad and learn from the good of the WOF movement. I personally find that no denomination or movement is perfect and all of them have their excesses, but all of them also have their strengths. A wise man will build from their strengths, and learn from their weaknesses.

I also learn and spit out from all of these movements:

Southern Baptist, Vineyard, River/Renewal, Revival, Third Wave, Messianic, House Church, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Latter Rain, Holiness Movement, Grace Movement, Apostle/ Prophetc Movement, Presbyterians, Assembly of G-d, Foursquare, Methodism, Armenianism, Calvinism,Discipleship Movement and many more. I learn from the best and ignore the worst.

The only movment I have yet to learn from is the Seeker Sensetive movement. It grieves my spirit. But I know if I look I can find some things to learn from, and alot of things to spit out.

I am now writing from a computer at the bed and breakfast I am staying at in the Toronto Blessing (TACF) and am learning alot here. I have felt the love of G-d here in an amazing way more than once. I know there are some excesses and some things not of the Spirit, however there are alot of things that are of the Spirit and I want it! I would rather be in a revival where the Spirit of G-d is moving with some flesh, than no Spirit at all. It is more fleshly to not have the power than it is to have the power with outbursts of flesh sometimes.

I am also a Messianic leader. There are alot of excesses in the messianic movement I would say that some is pure sin. However, I love the messianic movement and see it as a wheat field in which the enemy has sowed some tares. I tend to the wheat and trust G-d to take care of the tares while warning the sheep.

[halifaxchristian]

What IS doctrines of demons is that God has given us doctors, drugs, psychiatrists, medicines.

Oh, puhhlleease! I suppose that Luke was demon possessed? He was a doctor ya know! And he told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake. He didn't say go see Benny Hinn to get prayed for. He suggested a remedy-a drug if you will or a medicine. Don't even start bringing that baloney on here. If you persist in that kind of junk, there's only one solution:

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[halifaxchristian]

Re the objection about my statement regarding psychiatrists and drugs: hopefully this will help explain.  Several years ago on "Good Morning America" there was an interview with Kip Kinkel's psychiatrist. Interviewing him was Jack Ford, a lawyer and Dr. Nancy Synderman, a medical doctor. During the interview they played a video of Kip walking the scene of the school shooting he had done, right after killing his parents. He screamed" THESE VOICES IN MY HEAD!. The psychiatrist was treating him with drugs. As is usual in our secular age, zero mention of Christianity or demons or exorcisms. This is one link i just got via google for those unaware of Kip Kinkel

.http://www.cnn.com/US/9911/05/oregon.school.shooting.03/

Anyway, i am filled with wrath against the adversary and the horrible evil increasing [it seems to me] worldwide. What follows is part of a post i had made on another message board where the subject title was:

Taken over by Satan: any Warriors?

Think of how you might deal with Mariane Pearl as you together watch the video of her husband Danny having his head sliced off. Unless there is deadly seriousness, turn your heads away. From my own personal experiences [a full-time Good vs Evil study] the devil possesses power and has hate beyond describing.

______________________________________________

Andrea Yates hearing voices.

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1285694

A man came in desperation to Jesus Christ:

"Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatic, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.

And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.

Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me."

And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could we not cast him out?

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief..."<Matthew 17:15-20a>

Flash forward some 1970 plus years. Today demonic possession/oppression is "treated" with various antipsychotic poisons. Hardly anywhere does the Church of Jesus Christ provide for exorcisms. Those suffering under demonic attack have to quadruply suffer:(1) the attacks (2) not being believed that the attacks are real (3) having to pay for medical insurance-society has thrown literally Trillions of dollars down health insurance/medicare/medicaid/drugs for seniors demonic pits (4) being forced into taking F.D.A. "approved" drugs. Look into the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-"bible" for psychiatry: ever increasing "mental disorders") and the book "Making us Crazy..." which ties the "disorders" into the pharmacy pipeline.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...718-4311221?v=g lance

Read "Hostage to the devil" by Malachi Martin, The 1992 edition. At least the preface to this new edition. Those attempting exorcisms have died, as well as been sued when the exorcisms have not gone well.

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.<1Timothy3:1>

The word translated "perilous" from the Greek has other nuances-e.g. "fierce", "hard to bear".

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Hey...I agree with you on many points. There is a crisis in the medical/psychiatric fields and Biblical answers are the ONLY answers in MANY of the areas you discuss. The FDA differs from the Bible on many issues. However, there is always a balance and a narrow path we must walk as a Christian. To jump to the conclusion that because the FDA gives Ritalin to kids....we shouldn't take Tylenol 3 for pain after tooth removal...is ludarcris.

There is nothing wrong with using the means which God has made availible for healing...if, of course, it does not conflict with Biblical theology. If I had to take a route...surgery/medication or prayer...I am going with prayer. But to assume that God cannot and does not use both is not using balance or common sense.

There is no good gift except that which comes down from heaven. Much of todays medical advances are in fulfillment of God's promises both in the Gospels and in the Book of Daniel (knowledge shall greatly increase).

God bless.

[halifaxchristian]

Just wondering...for those who yeild to the word/faith movement...

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO IN EMERGENCIES?

Just say you fell off of a high place at work and broke your leg and cut an artery...would you refuse treatment and die, or thank God for His providing an ordained higher authority and blessing that can save a life???

God bless.

[Trust & Obey]

Just wondering...for those who yeild to the word/faith movement...

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO IN EMERGENCIES? 

Just say you fell off of a high place at work and broke your leg and cut an artery...would you refuse treatment and die, or thank God for His providing an ordained higher authority and blessing that can save a life???

God bless.

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I think that they would assume they must be harboring sin or something and deserve it... else God wouldn't have let them fall.

[JesseB.]

All I can say is that we need to pray for our brethren.