Leaderboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsccUg4TDd8

I haven't read all the previous posts so I apologize if this has been covered. John Darby, the creator of "Dispensationalism" created the "two peoples of God" (Jews and the church) theory specifically so he could discredit Mt 24 from applying to the church. He had already plagiarized the "pre-tribulation rapture" concept from Edward Irving and others at the Albury prophecy conferences in the late 1820s. That is where the pre-trib rapture was first "revealed". Irving was a good friend of Lady Powerscourt and spent a week or more at her castle in August of 1830. She is said to have attended at least one of the Albury conferences and was so impressed she created her own conferences in the early 1830s. All dispensationalists accept that the pre-trib rapture idea came from the Powerscourt conferences, presumably by Darby. But there is no doubt that it was taught at the Albury conferences because it was described in their "Dialogs on Prophecy" books published after each conference. There is no doubt that Irving was a guest of Lady Powerscourt in 1830 because it was described in the book "Life of Irving" by Oliphant. There is no doubt that Darby came up with the "two peoples of God" after he learned about the pre-trib rapture because one of his contemporaries (whose name escapes me at the moment, [perhaps Benjamin Newton or possibly George Meuller]) describes how excited Darby was when he invented it. The contemporary said something to the effect that "Darby, if you accept that you give up one of the most important parts of Christianity." (I apologize if this is poorly quoted. It has been many years since I referred to this quote.) It might also be in this context that George Meuller said something to the effect of "There came a time when I had to decide whether to accept Mr. Darby's teaching or accept the teaching in my Bible. I chose to keep my precious Bible and part company with Mr. Darby." Mt 24 clearly contradicted Darby's pre-trib rapture idea, so Darby invented the distinction between the Jews and the Church so he could claim this passage did not apply to the Christians. According to Dispensational teachers like John Walvoord and Charles Ryrie, the most important distinction of Dispensationalism is not the so called "dispensations", but "rightly dividing the Word of God" into applying to either the Jews or the Church. This declares that there is one "Gospel" for the Jews and another "Gospel" for the Church. Paul warned about this in Galatians where he said that if he, or even an angel from Heaven, preached a Gospel other than the one he preached to the Galatian church, let him be condemned forever. To make sure he was clearly understood, he repeated himself. So, when Dispensationalists preach more than one gospel (There is no argument about this. Some of them have preached up to four "Gospels", that is four different ways of being saved.) how serious should we be about what they teach and why? These multiple gospels come from their "dividing the Word of God" into some passages that don't apply to the church, such as Mt 24, and other passages that do. I "think" the two peoples of God may have come out of the Albury conferences too, but I don't specifically remember. This post is not written with bitterness, hostility or confrontationality. The facts are irrefutable and the questions are those I must ask myself.

When the word talks of sin causing death it's Spiritual death not physical death..when 10 people say so and one says 10 people are wrong who is right??? Everybody has physical death..they are warning what sin causes..seperatiuon from God. I dust my feeet with this now.With some you can never concince..you need to ask your pastor and study for yourself.I won't go on about myself but I will say I have studied this over 40 yrs and am not dumb..so carry on if you wish.

I thought John 3 and beyond is what being spiritually dead is about. All are born spiritually dead, condemned to hell. That is why we must be born again of the Spirit. God came to save the world, not condemn it, because we are already condemned to hell. Unless we turn to Jesus, recognizing that He died so that we can be forgiven, we cannot be born again. John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed on the only begotten Son of God. NKJV

Blessings Everyone... But thats just it ,he doesn't preach,he doesn't teach...........he is a motivational speaker,a "feel good" guy............He does not make any bones about it ,Doesn't even claim to be a preacher,he says Jesus loves you,you are Saved ,you are going to Heaven ......don't worry,there are many ways to Jesus....just be good & everything is just wonderful...... I am only paraphrasing but that is all I ever gathered from one of his "sermons'.................With love -in Christ,Kwik

Yes, there is such an idea as spiritual death in God's Word. It is specifically about the "second death" of Rev.20, of being cast into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign. And that is prophecy. John 3 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 5 Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." This is a very, very simple matter. Our flesh is born of water (in woman's womb; that which is born of flesh), but our spirit comes from God (Eccl.12:5-7). Our spirit must... be born again (from above) by The Holy Spirit to enter into the Kingdom of God. That is done by confessing our sins to Christ Jesus, and confessing Him as God's promised Saviour, and believing by Faith that He died on the cross and The Father raised Him from the dead, to offer us remission of our sins past. In Matt.23:27 when Jesus spoke of the unbelieving corrupt scribes and Pharisees, that they were like "whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness", that showed this idea of not being born again by The Spirit, and thus they represented the spiritually dead. In the time after Christ's future second coming, these type of souls that are spiritually dead will still exist throughout His thousand years reign with His elect. These spiritually dead (not born of The Spirit) will be subject to perishing the "lake of fire" at the end of that thousand years, and that is called the "second death", the death of one's soul and spirit, not one's flesh.

Hi Pamelasv, Very interesting question. To me the active part of that statement is `keep seeking the things above, where Christ is....` Now because I know that God is making me like Christ, (Rom. 8: 29) then I need to work with His Holy Spirit for that to be outworked. Thus I apply - `...all diligence,....moral excellence...knowledge (of Christ) self-control....perseverance....godliness...brotherly kindness & Christ`s love....` (2 Peter 1: 5 - 7) Reading that chapter in 2 Peter we see that it is by His divine power that we are partakers of the divine nature - to be like Christ. Nothing in this world will make us like Christ, only His `riches,` His character qualities. (Of course trials & difficulties are the opportunities for us to draw upon the Lord for His patience, longsuffering, lovingkindness ...etc) `For if these qualities are yours & increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful.....` (2 Peter 1: 8) `When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.` (Col. 3: 4) What absolutely amazing, astounding promises if we but - `keep seeking the things above, where Christ is...` (Col. 3: 2) The Divine nature that is deposited in us as we work with His Holy Spirit. May we all continue steadfastly.