dcampsart

Do you believe in a God that is what you want or do you want to know God as He really is? So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. [Romans 9:16]

If you note in the Gospels, there came a point when Jesus refused to answer the Pharisees and Sadducees and the like. There comes a point where we can recognize a person has stopped their ears to hearing the Gospel and just want to argue. At that point we need to stop playing their game and move on. I have one friend who actually came to Christ because some Christians did just that. He was an avid atheist who took pleasure in arguing down what the Christians had to say. One night when he met them again at their home, they told him to his face they could tell he was arguing for the sake of arguing, had no intentions of listening to them, and that they were done with him, and then forced him to leave the house. It just so happened that the Lord was doing something in his heart at the time, and reality hit him with the rejection and that drove him to find God. This is my position Nebula. I believe the Holy Spirit will direct when the time comes to hold back the pearls. Only he knows who's the swine or dog!

Wondering too...

I know I needed this during this "perfect" season! Thanks...

I know I shouldn't keep throwing my story at every abortion issue but I know that viewing the ultrasound of my fifth baby is what changed my mind completely about whether or not she should be aborted. Please read one of my first posts back when I joined WCF concerning what I feel about abortion.

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Weenie who likes bible on CD? Come on now...

Selah...

Whoa... logistical error??

Blessings to you riel... she really is full of... LIFE !

You may not have come out and made a statement, but the things you said and the verses you posted had a message that was loud and clear. Being a former Marine and being around the military all my life - I know myself. Not only would I have shot him in the head, I would've emptied my clip into him. Then, I would've turned to my fellow troops and handed the weapon over to them without a fight... fully realizing my plight because I know... as the Marines always touted... YOU PLAY... YOU PAY! I agree with RunningGator. It wouldn't have been right for me to take his life in that manner but, unless for an absolute miracle of grace and mercy at that very moment, I know me... I would've exacted retribution on this ignorant creature immediately without the slightest hesitation or remorse. Back in my cell, however, I would've come to my senses and having time to think about my actions, I would've deeply regretted how I handled the situation. Would I regret sending him to HELL so he could burn in 9000 degrees? I hardly think so but I would only regret that I stepped in and disobeyed God almighty himself who said that vengeance belonged to him! I've read stories of Christians who were so persecuted that even their family members were brought before them with threats of their deaths if the Christian didn't recant his faith or position in Christ. I've been amazed at hearing they would not give in but stood firm even as they watched the horrible results for refusing to deny the Lord. I picture how fathers of whole families were led into the coloseum tortured in their very minds and souls as to what they should do. Did they grab a soldier's sword and start fighting to the death attempting to defend their loved ones? They would've been justified and morally right in doing so but there was a higher authority who said... "WAIT... VENGEANCE IS MINE... I WILL REPAY!"... saith the Lord! I fully believe that ignorant soul DESERVED to die. Right on the spot! Immediately! I for one would've had no problem with it! In fact, if all my fellow troops decided to turn and look the other way and never bring it up again, I would've had no problem with that either. That is, until maybe later in life because I know that it would've been wrong for me to step into God's domain and authority and taken matters into my own hands. The proper reaction would've been for me to stand there and scream and cry and even bite on something attempting to resist the temptation to blow that coward away! I agree with everything above, dcampsart. But the guy was not military; he was a civilian contractor and probably subject to local law. I don't care one iota if he was military, contractor or the tooth fairy! He deserved to die! The point I'm making here is that no matter what I feel about the right or wrong of it... I would not have had THE RIGHT to do anything about it except for what the Army did. They apprehended him, secured him and would have eventually led him away for PROPER action. Even if I would've had to bite on a bullet to keep from slitting his throat, so be it but for me to kill him would've been wrong.

You may not have come out and made a statement, but the things you said and the verses you posted had a message that was loud and clear. Being a former Marine and being around the military all my life - I know myself. Not only would I have shot him in the head, I would've emptied my clip into him. Then, I would've turned to my fellow troops and handed the weapon over to them without a fight... fully realizing my plight because I know... as the Marines always touted... YOU PLAY... YOU PAY! I agree with RunningGator. It wouldn't have been right for me to take his life in that manner but, unless for an absolute miracle of grace and mercy at that very moment, I know me... I would've exacted retribution on this ignorant creature immediately without the slightest hesitation or remorse. Back in my cell, however, I would've come to my senses and having time to think about my actions, I would've deeply regretted how I handled the situation. Would I regret sending him to HELL so he could burn in 9000 degrees? I hardly think so but I would only regret that I stepped in and disobeyed God almighty himself who said that vengeance belonged to him! I've read stories of Christians who were so persecuted that even their family members were brought before them with threats of their deaths if the Christian didn't recant his faith or position in Christ. I've been amazed that they would not give in but stood firm even as they watched the horrible results for refusing to deny the Lord. I don't know if I could submit to such a threat in faith trusting the Lord will take care of it in his own time. No wonder the scriptures talk so much about our possessing our souls through patience and perseverance!! I picture how fathers of whole families were led into the colosseum tortured in their very minds and souls as to what they should do. Did they grab a soldier's sword and start fighting to the death attempting to defend their loved ones? They would've been justified and morally right in doing so but there was a higher authority who said... "WAIT... VENGEANCE IS MINE... I WILL REPAY!"... saith the Lord! I fully believe that ignorant soul DESERVED to die. Right on the spot! Immediately! I for one would've had no problem with it! In fact, if all my fellow troops decided to turn and look the other way and never bring it up again, I would've had no problem with that either. That is, until maybe later in life because I know that it would've been wrong for me to step into God's domain and authority and taken matters into my own hands. The proper reaction would've been for me to stand there and scream and cry and even bite on something attempting to resist the temptation to blow that coward away!

Please read one of my first posts back when I joined WCF concerning what I feel about abortion. I'm sure some have already read it but for those who haven't - tell me if I'm wrong for not caring about anything medical, scientific or political behind the abortion debate. What's important to me is the little one in my life truly represents God's grace and how he adopts us into his family! In fact, she, the little one, interupted my posting a reply in another forum this morning to remind me I had to get her to junior high school. Funny, I was listening to a christian radio station in my jeep while driving her to school that started out with the words... "I choose Christ... I choose LIFE!" Sorry to plant my reply that seems a little off base about the political issues but I wanted to put my $.02 in here.

Please read one of my first posts back when I joined WCF concerning what I feel about abortion. I'm sure some have already read it but for those who haven't - tell me if I'm wrong for not caring about anything medical or scientific behind the abortion debate. What's important to me is the little one in my life truly represents God's grace and how he adopts us into his family!

I don't believe Joel Osteen has anything to do with Robert Schuller's church. He heads Lakewood Church in Texas. The only thing I can find doing a search on whether or not Joel Osteen has anything to do with Schuller's church, is nothing but comparisons to how he took over his father's ministry in Texas to Schuller's son taking over his for a time.

8 Better is a little with righteousness, Than vast revenues without justice. [Proverbs 16:8] 1 Better is a dry morsel with quietness, Than a house full of feasting with strife. [Proverbs 17:1] 16 Better is a little with the fear of the LORD, Than great treasure with trouble. 17 Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, Than a fatted calf with hatred. [Proverbs 15:16-17]

God Bless you Manie, for all the Wonderful things He has done for you!! I know this subject is difficult but it's a very valid subject.. We ALL suffer - at some point in our lives.... I've come to see that suffering, to some degree or another, is absolutely essential for my journey with God. I wish it didn't have to be so painful or frightening at times but I can see how it definitely works out for the good if I simply hang in there and just... wait!

For whatever it's worth, I found this article from a website known as "Reformation Theology" Evangelical Zionism A rather disturbing trend among some evangelical groups in the past decade is the rise of Christian Zionism. Among those who are among their number there are some radical elements which think that they can help hasten the Apocalypse by means of forcing the fulfillment of prophesy. This, they believe, can be done by helping Orthodox Jews to raise red heifers and assist in rebuilding the Temple that was destroyed by the Romans in the first century in Jerusalem. Several evangelical groups are actually raising and shipping red heifers to Israel in the belief that the birth of a red heifer in Israel will signal the rebuilding of the Temple. A cattle rancher and ordained minister with the National Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ, Clyde Lott believes, like many dispensationalists, that three preconditions mentioned in the Bible are necessary for the coming of the Messiah: the state of Israel must be restored; Jerusalem must be in Jewish hands; and the Temple, last destroyed in 70 A.D., must be rebuilt. The modern state of Israel, of course, was established in 1948, and since 1967, the Jewish state has controlled all of Jerusalem. That leaves the rebuilding of the Temple, and since a red heifer was part of the sacrificial ritual in the Temple -- mentioned several times in the Bible, including in the Book of Numbers, chapters 19-22 -- many believe the birth of a red heifer in Israel will signal the Temple's return. Many Jews believe that the same preconditions will bring about the coming of the Jewish Messiah. At least two other American Christians are breeding similar cows in the United States in hopes of bringing them to Israel, according to Gershon Solomon, the leader of the Temple Mount Faithful, another group dedicated to rebuilding the Temple. Two major problems with this action by Christians should be self-evident to those who frequently read the Bible: 1) God has never called us to pry into His secret will or try to bring about the fulfillment of prophesy through attempting, by force, to bring about the end of the world. God will bring about the eschaton in His own time, according to His sovereign good pleasure. He calls Christians, rather, to preach the gospel and to act in justice, mercy. love and humility. There is no place for Christians to speculate about the end times and attempt to bring it about by their own efforts. There is no command of God to do so and we should focus on the gospel rather than spend all our effort on the secular state of Israel. 2) I can hardly think of anything more blasphemous than for persons (claiming to be Christians) to be raising red heifers or helping rebuild the Temple. To do so is to go backwards in redemptive history and to fail to heed to warnings listed in Hebrews 6 & 10. The book of Hebrews is about Jesus Christ and his superiority to Angels, to Moses and to the ritual Levitical Sacrifice. The warnings in Hebrews were specifically geared toward those Jewish Christians who were tempted to go back to the shadows of the levitical sacrifices instead of trusting in Christ alone, who the sacrifices themselves pointed to. To return to the sacrifices is simply to deny Jesus Christ by exalting the shadows, and this is accompanied with the severest warnings. Perhaps these evangelicals are "well-meaning" but good intent will not take the place of obedience. Jesus Himself said that if the Temple were destroyed he would rebuild it in three days. This was in reference to His resurrected body, so Jesus Himself made clear that he was the True Temple.

Please forgive me for being true to form with long-winded posts but I thought you may find interesting, below, just one of many articles about Israel preparing for the eventual return of the temple and the old sacrificial system I found in an internet search of the topic. The Futility of the Red Heifer

Speaking of God placing the highest honor of Christ's shed blood to the satisfying of his justice: 1 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice,

I have always accepted the fact that the shedding of blood is imperative for the remission of sin. I've always had a problem with trying to understand the "why" behind things. Today, I was listening to a bible CD that was dramatically portraying the scourging that Christ endured. From that, I started dwelling on Mel Gibson's movie "Passions of the Christ" and the horribly gory scenes of blood. I find myself wondering about the deeper meaning of the need for so much blood. I'm not even foolish enough to question God's wisdom in requiring the shedding of blood but I think I'm more overwhelmed to think of the big WHY HE would shed HIS OWN blood to satisfy HIS requirement. I mean... couldn't he have come up with another way to forgive mankind? Even if I was all-knowing and could look down through time, while I was slaying some innocent animal to cover Adam and Eve, what would be my extreme passion to drive me to go through the horrendous slaughter, pain and suffering of shedding MY OWN blood to satisfy MY OWN righteous requirement? Can we even begin to imagine the magnitude as to the big WHY God wanted it to be exactly this way? You may find the answer to your "why" here. Just skim down to "Lower than angels" and "Disproving Satan's lies." First of all, I want to congratulate you on such a comprehensive study you wrote... amazing! The idea of God shedding his blood to prove his love for us is getting closer to what I'm looking for but I have this nagging desire to attempt to understand what the shedding of blood does for God! What does it mean to him? I hope you don't mind but I extracted your words in the paragraph below: The Almighty chose not to come with an appearance like that of King Saul, who was obviously a "choice young man" and "goodly [handsome]; and there was not a goodlier person than he: from his shoulders upward he was higher than any of the people" (I Samuel 9:2). Surely this was the kind of Christ many were looking for, and still are. But no, God took for Himself a body that would have "no form nor comeliness" that "when we shall see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him" (Isaiah 53:2). God did not attempt to win our love by impressing us with a majestic display of outward beauty. No, He laid all that aside and in a beaten, whipped, spat upon, crucified and pierced body, He silently, but openly, proved His love for us and forever settled any question of being worthy of our love. At times, I attempt to imagine what goes through God's mind when he looks upon the blood. Does he see us as looking through "rose colored" or "blood tinted" glasses? To think that we overcome the evil one... the accuser... through the BLOOD OF THE LAMB and the word of our testimony... it is obvious that God places the highest honor upon the "satisfying" work of the shedding of blood.

Maybe I'm weird but the only time I cared about following sports was when I was in high school football. I've never cared since. I can understand people wanting to pray though - for whatever reasons but I don't. Just me...

I have always accepted the fact that the shedding of blood is imperative for the remission of sin. I've always had a problem with trying to understand the "why" behind things. Today, I was listening to a bible CD that was dramatically portraying the scourging that Christ endured. From that, I started dwelling on Mel Gibson's movie "Passions of the Christ" and the horribly gory scenes of blood. I find myself wondering about the deeper meaning of the need for so much blood. I'm not even foolish enough to question God's wisdom in requiring the shedding of blood but I think I'm more overwhelmed to think of the big WHY HE would shed HIS OWN blood to satisfy HIS requirement. I mean... couldn't he have come up with another way to forgive mankind? Even if I was all-knowing and could look down through time, while I was slaying some innocent animal to cover Adam and Eve, what would be my extreme passion to drive me to go through the horrendous slaughter, pain and suffering of shedding MY OWN blood to satisfy MY OWN righteous requirement? Can we even begin to imagine the magnitude as to the big WHY God wanted it to be exactly this way?