enoob57

crying will get you nowhere

Faith is the initial exist in the creative act of God... to place a begin in the infinite of Being -I AM that I AM... and so designed to the perfection of God in the new heaven and new earth... God's got this and to this John 8:32 (KJV) [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 15:15 (KJV) [15] Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Faith is indeed established in His Word of promise...

Many times we are motivated toward mistrust to protect self from the possible heartbreak... 'all we like sheep' is a difficult willingness to give others the benefit of doubt and not try to protect oneself from being blindsided...

to put it very simply the world of righthanded people everything is geared that way ... even the lefties have adjusted to this reality...

Our Lord has told us that the world will worsen ... 2 Timothy 3:1 (KJV) [3:1] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; and disturbingly through this avenue [5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. The form would be seen in that of the religious leaders, of whom, called Jesus' miracles that of the devil... this the only unforgivable sin that exists... this being the heart of individual being 'satan'... So, in effect his effort to destroy the image of God as he can do nothing against God Himself -the understanding of why he is like he is.... All satan has control over now is this world and the things within it: Ephesians 2:2 (KJV) [2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: [3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. [4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) This a very powerful thing and control to all of us who have began here- for in our begin we are spiritually disconnected from God and only through our flesh do we perceive reality by our sensual makeup... The faith in which we are born again is founded upon the truth in this way John 8:58 (KJV) [58] Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. It is in this venue that we connect outside of ourselves and our all powerful (joking) perception... to the substance of faith, which is spiritual in it's form, and born out from Word, Romans 10:17 (KJV) [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. the Word of God Jesus, specific and through this avenue of a very objective reality in written format called Scripture... As God's claim to Scripture is defined and understood in John 17 as the central point of escape from the death we are in! My hope and prayer for all the family of God in Christ Jesus is for you to love the provided escape more than your physical food! For by this we can recognize Jesus' own life and walk in our own ... Matthew 4:4 (KJV) [4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

All of life is, after the fall, God showing us why He said not to eat from this tree- from every vantage point of reason as to cause and effect... I get it ... hope you do as well!!!

Gen 11:31-32 31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there. 32 And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran. KJV There are some difficulties here as to whether Terak lived another 60 years after Abram's departure or upon death Abram left Acts 7:4... as to answers none are found at this time only mathematical calculations presupposed.

None of us can fathom the sins of all beings ... Here is a good treatise on the subject How Was Jesus “Made” Sin? Author: Ron Rhodes A verse commonly misinterpreted by cultists is 2 Corinthians 5:21, where the apostle Paul tells us that God “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (NASB, emphasis added). Based on this verse, for example, the Christadelphians argue that Jesus had to engage in self-redemption before seeking to redeem the rest of humanity: “He himself required a sin offering”;1 He “saved himself in order to save us.”2 Word-Faith leaders take a different—though even more heretical—spin on the verse. Kenneth Copeland, for example, asserts that Jesus “had to give up His righteousness”3 and “accepted the sin nature of Satan.”4 Benny Hinn likewise declares that Jesus “did not take my sin; He became my sin….He became one with the nature of Satan.”5 In what follows, I will demonstrate in brief fashion that there are five key hermeneutic principles that disallow such distorted understandings of Christ and His salvific mission. These principles, which guide our understanding of the apostle Paul’s intended meaning (the only correct meaning), are: (1) interpret Bible verses in context; (2) correctly understand, assess, and draw insights from Old Testament typology; (3) interpret verses in accordance with lexical insights gained from the original languages of the Bible; (4) interpret Scripture by Scripture, recognizing that Scripture is its own best interpreter; and (5) interpret difficult verses in light of the clear verses. 1. Interpret Bible Verses in Context. The immediate context of 2 Corinthians 5:21 centers on reconciliation to God (see vv. 18–20). The Greek word for reconciliation in these verses, katallages, refers to “the exchange of hostility for a friendly relationship.”6 The state of hostility exists because of human sin against a holy God, which, according to the apostle Paul, was dealt with at the cross of Christ (2 Cor. 5:14–15). In view of this, the friendly relationship that Adam and Eve lost can now be restored through faith in Christ. The basis of Paul’s reconciliatory message is then stated in verse 21: God “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” 2. Correctly Understand, Assess, and Draw Insights from Old Testament Typology. A type is an Old Testament institution, event, person, object, or ceremony that has reality and purpose in biblical history, but that also—by divine design—foreshadows something yet to be revealed. The Passover lamb in the Old Testament (Exod. 12:21) was a “type” of Christ, who is Himself the Lamb of God (John 1:29, 36). An understanding of the Passover Lamb in the Old Testament provides significant insight on the concept of substitution. For example, the sacrificial lamb had to be “unblemished” (Exod. 12:5; Lev. 4:3, 23, 32). At the time of the sacrifice, a hand would be laid on the unblemished sacrificial animal to symbolize a transfer of guilt (Lev. 4:4, 24, 33). Notice that the sacrificial lamb did not thereby actually become sinful by nature; rather, sin was imputed to the animal and the animal acted as a sacrificial substitute. In like manner, Christ the Lamb of God was utterly unblemished (1 Pet. 1:19), but our sin was imputed to Him and He was our sacrificial substitute on the cross of Calvary. Simply because our sin was imputed to Him does not mean He changed in nature or actually became sinful. 3. Interpret Verses in Accordance with Lexical Insights Gained from the Original Languages of the Bible. In 2 Corinthians 5:21, the phrase “on our behalf” (“He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf ”) derives from the Greek term huper. This word can bear a number of nuances, not all of them substitutionary in nature. As professor Daniel Wallace has noted in his Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, however, there are a number of factors that argue in favor of a substitutionary use of the word in New Testament times. For example, the substitutionary sense of huper is found in extra-New Testament Greek literature (see, e.g., Plato, Republic 590a; Xenophon, Anabasis 7.4.9–10), the Septuagint (e.g., Deut. 24:16; Isa. 43:3–4), and in the papyri (e.g., Oxyrhyn chus Papyrus 1281.11–12; Tebtunis Papyrus 380.43–44).7 One papyri example relates to a scribe who wrote a document on behalf of a person who did not know how to write. In all, Wallace counts 87 examples from the papyri in which huper is used in a substitutionary sense, and this by no means exhausts the extant papyri data. Wallace thus concludes that “this evidence is over whelming in favor of treating huper as bearing a substitutionary force in the NT era.”8 The Friberg Greek Lexicon likewise affirms that the word is used “with a component of representation or substitution in the place of, for, in the name of, instead of.”9 Christ’s death, as the Lamb of God, was “for” (huper) us in the sense that it was on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21). The word is used in this same on-behalf-of sense elsewhere in Scripture. Jesus at the Last Supper said: “This is My body which is given for you” (Luke 22:19, emphasis added here and in the verses that follow). Likewise, in John 10:15 Jesus affirmed, “I lay down My life for the sheep.” Paul thus exults that “God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8; see also Gal. 3:13; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 2:9). Jesus “gave Himself for us to redeem us” (Titus 2:14), “the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God” (1 Pet. 3:18; see also 2:21). The idea of substitution richly permeates these verses. 4. Interpret Scripture by Scripture. Since Scripture is its own best interpreter, we must approach 2 Corinthians 5:21 in light of the clear teaching of other verses. While there are quite a number of pertinent theological facts we could derive from other verses that may have relevance for a proper understanding of this verse, for illustration’s sake I cite one alone: the immutability of Christ. Scripture reveals that Christ, as God, is unchanging and unchangeable (cf. Mal. 3:6; James 1:17). In Hebrews 1:12 the Father—drawing a contrast between the universe that ages and is passing away, and Jesus who is untouched by the passing of time—says of Jesus, “You are the same, and your years will not come to an end” (emphasis added). We are assured of the divine Savior: “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever” (Heb. 13:8, emphasis added). Whatever else we might conclude from such verses, they certainly prohibit any suggestion that Jesus changed in His essential nature as God, or, more specifically, took on the nature of Satan. 5. Interpret Difficult Verses in Light of the Clear Verses. Among the more obvious teachings in the clear verses of Scripture is the perpetual sinlessness of Jesus Christ (emphasis is added in the following verses). The writer of Hebrews affirmed that “we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin” (Heb. 4:15). Jesus was “holy, innocent, [and] undefiled” (Heb. 7:26). He was One “who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in his mouth” (1 Pet. 2:22). Jesus’ betrayer was remorseful, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood” (Matt. 27:4). A hardened Roman soldier cried out, “Certainly this man was innocent” (Luke 23:47). The apostle Peter affirmed that we are redeemed not “with perishable things like silver or gold…but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ” (1 Pet. 1:18–19). John said, “You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin” (1 John 3:5). In view of such verses, it is impossible to argue that Jesus’ essential nature actually became tainted or corrupted by sin. The Apostle Paul’s Intended Meaning. Based on the preceding hermeneutic considerations, we conclude that the apostle Paul’s intended meaning in 2 Corinthians 5:21 is that Jesus was always without sin actually, but at the cross He was made to be sin for us judicially. While Jesus never committed a sin personally, He was made to be sin for us substitutionally.10 Just as the righteousness that is imputed to Christians in justification is extrinsic to them, so the sin that was imputed to Christ on the cross was extrinsic to Him and never in any sense contaminated His essential nature. As one Bible expositor put it, “The innocent was punished voluntarily as if guilty, that the guilty might be gratuitously rewarded as if innocent.”11 In a nutshell, then, the whole redemptive plan is one of substitution—and without such substitution there can be no salvation. It was by His utterly selfless sacrificial death on the cross that our sinless Savior—the unblemished Lamb of God—paid the penalty for our sins and thereby canceled the debt of sin against us, thus wondrously making possible our reconciliation with God. The redeemed of God can only respond in exultation and praise: “To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood…to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever” (Rev. 1:5–6). —Ron Rhodes Ron Rhodes, Th.D., is president of Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministries and adjunct professor of theology at Biola University (La Mirada, California), Southern Evangelical Seminary (Charlotte, North Carolina), and at Golden Gate Seminary (Southern California campus). He is an award-winning author of numerous books and articles. notes 1 Frank Jannaway, ed., Christadelphian Answers (Houston: Herald Press, 1920), 24. 2 Ibid., 24. 3 Kenneth Copeland, “The Incarnation,” Audiotape #01-0402 (Fort Worth: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1985), side 2. 4 Kenneth Copeland, “What Happened from the Cross to the Throne,” Audiotape #02-0017 (Fort Worth: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1990), side 2. 5 Benny Hinn, quoted in Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity in Crisis (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1993), 155–56. 6 Walter Bauer, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., ed. and rev. Frederick William Danker (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 521. 7 Daniel Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996), 383–88. 8 Ibid., 386. 9 Timothy Friberg, Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, in BibleWorks software, BibleWorks, LLC. 10 See Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes, Correcting the Cults (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1997), 244. 11 Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown’s Commentary, in PC Study Bible software, BibleSoft.

Jesus didn't have a sin nature because you must sin to have that... but His flesh was tempted as Scripture says and that as we to put anything created before God... yet this He did not do... we see it clearly in Gethsemane: Matthew 26:41 (KJV) [41] Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. Paul spoke on this as well Rom 7... the magnificence of Jesus is He never gave in to the weakness of the flesh. This alone demands my devotion to Him as I fail often in myself and this only magnifies His Person to my devotion to Him... Yes King of Kings and Lord of Lords but in my heart Man of Men... He did what only God could do and He did it in flesh...

Hebrews 4:15 (KJV) [15] For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Was maybe but now unredeemed flesh is warfare against s/Spirit Rom 7...

we can see just how demanding our flesh is for it's food ... sanctification is making God's Word food more important than flesh's food...

@JohnDW I believe you have got really good council from the family... we are instructed by The Lord 1 Thessalonians 5:22 (KJV) [22] Abstain from all appearance of evil.

That's because you made George into a wallet

Does this mean I can't be last

I appreciate their scholarship but differ on the soteriological belief based on 4th century Augustinian teachings...

This might be a reasonable point if not for the fact we are speaking of cessation of existence and not nature of death .... As Lazarus and the rich man show forth physical realities even though separated from body... However, Spiritual death (as separated from God) was immediate both in thought and action... naked was wrong in their now fallen minds and hiding from God was the action resulting... Genesis 2:17 (KJV) [17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. As this was the first death ... but he continued on many more years and as we see the account of Lazarus we see physical realities still in play ... thirst plus torment...

The concept of eternal life is being with Jesus for He has proclaimed John 14:6 (KJV)[6] saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Existence without Jesus will be hell or eternal death... it is why the final judgment is called the second death Revelation 20:14 (KJV) [14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Simply if death is cessation of existence how could you have a second one?

It is to this the children of God are responsible back to God for their thoughts... 2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Yes -death in the Bible is separation from God not cessation of existence....

Simply if we weren't eternal existing beings then we would not have been made in the image of God...

Then you would have to agree with Genesis 1:5 (KJV) [5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. It can't grammatically be understood any other way than a 24 hr. period of time...

I agree with this statement by Matt Slick What is meant by the inspiration of the Scriptures? by Matt Slick | Sep 2, 2010 | Questions, The Bible When Christians say that the Bible is inspired, they are saying that it is “God-breathed.” 2 Tim. 3:16-17 says “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” The word for “inspired” is the Greek θεόπνευστος, “theopneustos,” which means “God-breathed.” In other words, this means that the Scriptures are authored from God and that God moved through the personality and abilities of the biblical writers in such a way that what they wrote was without error and was correct in everything that it addressed. Therefore, the Scriptures are the product of both God and man, and the Scriptures reflect the writing style of different individuals. This process of inspiration was not a mechanical dictation where the writer simply wrote down what was heard. Neither did they go into a trance-like some cases of “automatic writing” which are said to occur in occult practices. Instead, the writers of the Bible were free to write what they wanted, the way they wanted, and when they wanted; yet it was God moving through them to ensure the integrity and accuracy of what was said. Furthermore, the Christian church recognizes the inspired Scriptures because the Holy Spirit, who indwells believers, recognizes the voice of God. The church did not give us the Scriptures. The Christian church recognized the Christian Scriptures.

Could you comment a bit more on this... just trying to clearly see what you are saying...