saved34

Amen @Abby-Joy. Your father’s testimony brings joy to my heart. Even your whole attitude towards that situation is a testament to God’s powerful grace. All things truly work for the good of those that love God.

You are coming from a place of human emotions rather than reality. God sent Jesus to save the wicked and sinful. How do you think the relatives and fellow saints felt about Paul being saved? He literally murdered their brothers and sisters in front of them, yet God used him more mightily than all of them. Be careful who you say God will not save. You straddle the line of self righteousness and do not recognize your own sinfulness and need for a savior. There is none good but Christ Jesus. We were all guilty before God. Now in Christ he has forgiven us our wickedness and made us righteous. Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Try reading Hebrews 10 in context, FF. He addresses the willful sin from vs 1. Heb 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. The whole dilemma is disregarding Christ’s Holy sacrifice and seeking another way to God after having full knowledge that Christ us the only sacrifice that can take away sin. Heb 10:2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. Heb 10:3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. Heb 10:4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. They had people literally returning to animal sacrifices in light of knowing Christ is the only sacrifice. Heb 10:11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. Heb 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Heb 10:17 Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb 10:18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary. Outside of Christ is no other sacrifice for sin. To seek other sacrifices is to willfully sin and you will never please God with any other sacrifice. Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

When our Lord spoke of forgiveness in Matthews, had he gone to the cross? Were men still sacrificing the blood of animals? Brother your usage of that passage is not being handled right as you are a dispensation behind in your interpretation. Now that our Lord gave himself for us, forgiveness is based upon him forgiving us for Christ sake. We are already forgiven so we should forgive others as well. Col 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. Eph 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Context is always key. Let me also add when reading any Old Testament book it must be read in light of Jesus Christ and what he has done to give us the New Testament in his own blood. A better Covenant with better promises. If not you are going to try and enforce things unlawfully. When reading the Gospels (especially Matthews) remember they are transitoryand must ultimately interpreted in light of our Lord fulfilling his mission of giving himself for our sins. Heb 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. 2Co 3:10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 2Co 3:11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 2Co 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 2Co 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 2Co 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 2Co 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Heb 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. Heb 10:39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Things that accompany salvation. The other group did not have this.( We) do not belong to the group that Apostasizes. We who? The Holy Spirit is making clear distinctions here. Professors who draw back with whatever they had ( which were not evidences that accompany salvation.

1Co 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I don’t see the confusion. You are still arguing from a straw man position because we do not support a life of sin. We are washed by the Lord Jesus Christ. That is what we were at one time. Why you insist on placing that on us is beyond me.

But you are the one stating that it should discontinue. I know how to not involve myself in threads that I think are not beneficial. I think the debate on eternal security is essential because the pure Gospel is at stake. I am also a witness that one can change their mind on the subject as I did so it is well worth it. It seems that most on your side find it grievous or a hassle more so than us. Why is that? We are only promoting trusting in Christ to the uttermost. We believe in leading Holy lives just as you do, we just believe our Lord has guaranteed us eternal life, and he is going to deliver on his promise.

When I first got saved I believed you could still be lost. Even though I read that God would no longer count our sins against us, and that we are justified or counted righteous on the merit of faith in Christ. In my mind I thought ‘how can this be? This sounds unbelievable’. Over time I came to understand that Jesus paid it all, and because of him I am Justified by God himself. That is his final judgment for all who believe in Christ. Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Rom 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

Is this my old friend Butero? Lol I remember he would always love the soapbox debates. Your posting style is very similar as well. If it’s not you then apologies in advance.

Predestination is more than God looking through the corridors of time and seeing who would choose him. Predestination is always God actively decreeing a blessing for his people that he chose. It is his own well laid out plan. Eph 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, It is a blessing to believe. To have the Holy Spirit open our understanding and then we receive the free gift of life. Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him, Many will hear and reject the Gospel. They will harden their hearts towards the Spirit. They give God glory in being examples of his great patience and mercy even though they will never receive him. Rom 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 1Pe 2:8 and, "A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. Anyone outside of Christ is destined for eternal destruction. The offer to be saved is very genuine, but God in his own Sovereignty has a place and position already for the devil and his angels and all who are wicked and reject Christ. What’s interesting is that it is never taught that the lost are predestined as if God fashioned them to perish from eternity. That is a word reserved for those that believe. Those that are lost are lost due to their own disbelief. 2Th 2:10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 2Th 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 2Th 2:12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. This is why I personally reject double predestination. Predestination is always in reference to the saints.

No FF, it is saying a Christian cannot live a lifestyle of sin. We cannot go on in debauchery, loving and enjoying sin. Our nature will not allow us to continue in sin. We do not have the mindset of the flesh any longer. It only wants sin and pleasures, and cannot please God. Rom 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. Rom 8:7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Rom 8:8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. We are no longer in the realm of the flesh to lead a lifestyle of sin, but we all do still sin. The Bible is clear that you are deceived if you think you don’t. You also make Christ out to be a liar. If you did not still sin there would be no point walking in the light and confessing.

@frienduff thaylorde is starting a good old fashioned praise service in here! Very uplifting and encouraging words as I’m about to start my work day. I really needed that. I feel energized and ready to go now. Such a great future ahead of us who are in Christ.

Prayer is hard work @TRlover. Sometimes it requires great patience, sometimes it may happen instantly. I had an issue I was dealing with for over 20 yrs and God finally delivered me. Scripture says the fervent prayer of a righteous man is very effective. Which also means obedience. Doing those things that please our Lord leads to answered prayer. 1Jn 3:21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 1Jn 3:22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. Joh 15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. Patience and perseverance are vital as God is building your faith toward him. He will answer in due time. He knows all and sees all. He hears you. Believe it, trust him. 1Jn 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

Sorry to say,I personally heard him say Jesus might not be the only way. He said other religions have some good men who will be with us in heaven apart from Christ.

If the church can afford it, the man of God should be taken care of. His life is generally dedicated to preaching the word. Whether food for him and his family, a home, etc. 1Ti 5:17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 1Ti 5:18 For Scripture says, "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages." 1Co 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 1Co 9:10 Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 1Co 9:11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? Gal 6:6 Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor. If he is a good minister of God I don’t think the saints would mind taking care of him with physical supplies.

To add onto this great response. Scripture says he made satan and all his princes look silly as he hung publicly being mocked and tortured bringing salvation to mankind. In his weakness he stripped them of their power Col 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

We all go through those times of feeling low or distant from God. Thank God that his truth doesn’t swerve with our own feelings. He said no matter the situation, nothing can separate you from his love. Feelings of despair, no good clothes to put on, you may be hungry for a season, anything. He said his love still stands. Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? Not only that, your hardships are actually utilized by God(because he loves you)to strengthen you and give you endurance. He allows these trials to come because he loves you. It’s discipline. Heb 12:3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Heb 12:4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. Heb 12:5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, Heb 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son." Heb 12:7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? Any form of hardship you are going through right now is because he loves you. Go ahead and cry or be sad for a season, then get up, dust yourself off and be happy your Father is training you. It hurts really bad but it is well worth it. He loves you whether you feel like it or not because God cannot and will not lie. Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Be encouraged dear @LadyKay

Amen Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Salvation is to be taken very serious. He says work out, not work for. God is behind it all working in us that which pleases him. Our part is the willingness and God respects it. 2Co 8:10 And here is my judgment about what is best for you in this matter. Last year you were the first not only to give but also to have the desire to do so. 2Co 8:11 Now finish the work, so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it, according to your means. 2Co 8:12 For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.

Agreed, but hell would be his home right now. Eventually he’ll and all its inhabitants will be dumped into the lake of fire. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Hell is a current place of torment for the dead that are lost,

Hitler was rotten and most likely a reprobate, but we were all rotten at one time. Satan controlled us all at one time. I think it is inappropriate for a sinful created being to speak like that concerning other created beings. 1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Don’t get me wrong, hitler was evil, and probably is in hell right now, but if he ended up in heaven he would not be the same guy

There are serious warnings for those outside of Christ. For those of us in Christ there are admonishments, but everything from God(good or bad) are yea and for our benefit. 2Co 1:18 But as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not "Yes" and "No." 2Co 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me and Silas and Timothy—was not "Yes" and "No," but in him it has always been "Yes." 2Co 1:20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God. Heb 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son." Rom 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Rom 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Dear @Sonshine☀️ it’s fine not to believe in the rapture but your interpretation here is an incredible stretch. If we used that method of interpretation for all scripture we would be in serious trouble. This is not metaphorical at all. It is literal. Just like Christ literally left and went into literal clouds, in literal air, he promised he would come back for his own in the same way. You know as well as I that the Greek word aer is also used to speak of the air that surrounds the earth. The word nephelē means literal clouds. Act 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. Act 1:10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. Act 1:11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." When our Lord comes in Judgement he will bring us with him. Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. These are two distinct events. The rapture where the saints(living or dead) receive their glorified bodies, and the Lord coming in his final judgment on the world with his saints.

@Abdicate You and I know the Bible clearly teaches the rapture, but there are genuine saints who believe different. They believe they have to go through the great tribulation or such. It hurts to see someone doubt the blessed hope, but they are saved by faith in Christ, not whether they believe in the rapture.

I’m criticizing your scenario. Would you personally stand before the Lord in your own self righteousness? ‘I went to church, I paid tithe, etc’? Its only by his grace that anyone is saved. The renewed heart understands this and would simply fall at the feet of Jesus Christ for mercy. Those counting on their own righteousness will plead all kinds of things that they have done for him and he will tell them depart from me. Luk 18:10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. Luk 18:12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' Luk 18:13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' Luk 18:14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted." Being left behind is an impossibility for a child of God. It is 100% reality to not be included in the rapture for people like you described. They are not saved to begin with.

I’m sure someone has already pointed this out to you @createdequal, but in the rapture our Lord does not come to earth. He calls all his saints(dead or alive) to meet him in the air. 1Co 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 1Co 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. We will meet him in the air, not on the earth.