OakWood

Washington State does not have to learn. Washington knew full well what the consequences would be. It's all part of a plot to destroy the U.S.A and they're using brainwashed Leftist idiots to carry out their plans. These Marxists have infiltrated the White House, the judiciary, the education system and probably every State government too. They won't be happy until the U.S.A. as we know it has been completely eradicated and they are destroying it from within by obliterating the economy. They're brainwashing kids with cultural Marxism, trying to destroy the Judeo-Christian family unit, and propagandizing the masses through the Media and the schools and university system. They're doing it in America and they're doing it in Britain and the rest of Europe. It's all part of a new Tower of Babel and once it is successful it will usher in the reign of the Beast.

As I have already said Luther didn't want to leave the Catholic church originally.....

So what? How is this relevant to the fact that Luther knew that Catholicism preached false doctrines? He jumped, he was pushed, he didn't jump, he wasn't pushed.... the end result is the same.......... the Protestant Reformation. Luther would have left sooner or later anyway. He may have been devoted to the Catholic Church but he was more devoted to the word of God.... and rightly so.

Okay, fair enough. My point is... he wanted the truth. He found it not in Roman Catholicism. He had pleaded with the Church to change. It did not. So whether he jumped or was pushed.... he left. Rebellion may be a choice, but it is not always a bad one.

I agree. We all know that there will be a falling away. Many churches have already fallen.

I think we're at cross purposes here. It matters not. My point is that Luther being a member of the Catholic clergy was familiar with Catholic doctrine. He wasn't some outsider looking in. He knew what he was talking about when he finally realised that Catholicism was corrupt and needed to be reformed. I'm not an expert on Luther's life history, but from what little I have read about him, he didn't want to stop being Catholic, he just wanted to reform the Church so it became more Biblical. Eventually he understood that this was not possible because the Vatican resisted all change, so he abandoned Catholicism altogether and preached independently of it. Maybe he was excommunicated first... I don't know... but it is not relevant to what I was trying to say earlier. Coincidentally, I'm actually reading about Luther at the moment so when I have swatted up on him maybe I'll have more to say on the matter.

The NIV is flawed. The changes are very subtle, so the unsuspecting will not notice them, and while by and large they make no difference to salvation these subtle changes will become a problem during the prophecied End Times, and they will create confusion as they are designed to do so. The NIV is a reasonably good 'go to' Bible for quick reference but it has been corrupted.

Well in my case, KJV and Geneva .... so not really KJV only

I don't trust any Bible translation made after a certain date (about early 1800s) and I don't trust any Bible that was translated from Vatican texts. For me it's King James (1611) or the Geneva Bible of 1599. The language is a struggle but it's still English even though it's somewhat archaic.

But he was only excommunicated because he rebelled. To the Vatican, any questioning of RCC doctrine is counted as rebellion.

They protest against anything that is not Left-Wing or Satanic.

That's correct. It was the sale of indulges that really incensed Luther, and was the triggering point for his attempts to modify and reform the errors of Catholicism. However, after realising that he couldn't reform the church of Rome, he then rebelled against it.

It's not even called 'Gay Pride' anymore..... it's now just called 'Pride'. What does that tell you? Pride is the original sin... the sin that leads to all other sins... Lucifer became an enemy of God because of his pride. The gay lobbyists know that it is now safe to hide in plain sight. Their masks have come off... Sodom and Gomorrah have risen from the ashes - they are real and alive again. We are all living in, or near to, the city of Sodom. These people are not interested in equality or recognition. Their parades and demonstrations prove this. They don't march in nice suits waving their banners, insisting on equal rights for gays. Instead they parade themselves in colourful garb, half-naked, wearing leather, carrying whips, dressed in bondage gear, wearing clothes of the opposite sex sometimes, dressed in drag - sometimes even flashing their genitals..... they are not merely demonstrating.... they are being 'turned on' by their actions...they are being sexually aroused by their public behaviour... they are thrusting their sexual perversions in our faces, and most people accept it..... We are seeing the face of iniquity, in all its naked glory. Throughout history Sodomy has been prevalent, be it the Ancient Greeks, the Egyptians or the Sumerians. It's always been with us... but Christendom kept in check for a time. We never completely stopped it but at least it kept it on a tight leash. But now Christendom is falling and while the cat's away the mice will play... the sodomites have now crawled out from under their stones.

Well, you know it's counterfeit if you can't understand it......

That's what I think too.... sort of. I think too much nonsense is made out of speaking tongues. Since the Tower of Babel incident we've all spoken different languages. Although it's possible to learn another language or even several with a little time and effort, we are generally divided by language. But 'tongues' is different. It is something innate within everybody without us realising it. Those who have the gift from God can speak tongues without having to learn it - it just flows out of their mouths, driven by their thoughts and what they want to say - and when it does, all ears understand it. A Frenchman will hear it in French and a Japanese man will hear it in Japanese.

I would say that speaking in Latin and Greek and Slavonic is not offensive because if you don't speak Latin or Greek or Slavonic then you won't understand it. The same way that if somebody spoke to me in Russian or Arabic, I wouldn't have a clue what they were talking about. Maybe I am naive but I always thought that speaking tongues could be understood by everybody... very few people can speak tongues but everybody who hears it can understand it in their own language, otherwise what is the point of it? The apostle Paul spoke in tongues because he travelled around different countries preaching and they all spoke different languages. He had no interpreter with him to translate what he said, yet every body he spoke to understood him. If somebody speaks to you in tongues and it sounds like gibberish then it's not really tongues. If somebody speaks to you in tongues and you understand it, and the guy standing next to you who doesn't speak your language (and you don't speak his) also understands it, then it is real tongues.

And none of these churches are Roman Catholic, yet Catholics claim that the only true church is theirs...... shows that they are wrong - straight from the mouth of Jesus himself.

Just because Jesus founded a church it does not mean it was the Roman Catholic one. In fact it can't be Roman Catholicism. Scripture tells us that the Church is any group of Christians that come together. We are the Church. Secondly, the Roman Catholic Church started a few hundred years after the crucifixion, and long after the death of Peter whom they claim was the first Pope.. Rome had been persecuting Christians for years! The RCC is not mentioned in future prophecy as being a Church. The early chapters of the book of Revelation does mention Churches such as the church of Philadelphia, the Nicolaitians and so on..... how can this be Roman Catholicism if they are all separate churches? The RCC also preaches doctrine that goes against scripture such as Mariolatry which diverts a believer from praying to Jesus, instead seeking salvation from somebody who cannot give it, a diabolical trick if ever there was one. The RCC has burned and destroyed more Bibles than any other body in history. How can an organisation that claims to follow Christ destroy the word of God? Early protestants were arrested and their handmade bibles were confiscated and burned, because Rome did not want the ordinary people to read bibles as they knew that the Vatican would be exposed for their lies if they did. In fact the Protestant reformation only succeeded due to the invention of the printing press because the RCC was unable to burn bibles fast enough. Luther was a Catholic priest so he knew all about the false teachings of Rome. As a member of the Catholic clergy he had access to bibles and when he read scripture, he was shocked to find just how perverse and non-scriptural the teachings of Rome were.

Yes, I think he probably has now - so despite what I have just said, the rules may be changing now that we are in the End Times.

Yes, bad things do happen to Christians every day but more often than not they are physical rather than spiritual in nature. Demonic influences may be behind them because wicked men are driven to do them, but by their nature they are physical attacks such as harrassment, persecution , bullying or in extreme cases kidnap, torture and murder. These are attacks of flesh and blood against flesh and blood, not spirit against spirit. Christians are immune from spiritual curses. We cannot be hexed, or have spells cast on us by people. We can experience demonic oppression (feelings of depression, being led into temptation, and so on), but other people can't use demons against us. In the case of Job, no individual person was invoking Satan against Job; all the attacks against Job were done by Satan himself, and only because God had given him express permission to do so. In fact, it was such a rare and probably unique incident that it warranted being recorded as a book and included as part of scripture. Non-Christians can become the victims of voodoo curses, spells, incantations, death wishes, Satanic prayers and all sorts of other curses that are invoked by men and carried out by evil spirits at the request of such men; but Christians are supposed to be protected from such curses because we have the Holy Spirit. Let's put it this way, if a group of witches got together and behind your back cast a spell against you to make you have a nasty accident and die, you probably wouldn't even find out that they ever cast a spell on you, because in all likelihood, nothing would happen to you - you'd be safe. But the same powerful magic used against a non-Christian may well have an affect. Even if they didn't die, they may end up having a nasty car wreck, or possibly experience some weird sinister accident where they escape unhurt or if not even that, they may suffer nightmares where they felt that something was trying to get them. It all depends on how powerful the curse is.

Well he did actually say that he never asks God to forgive his sins, because he doesn't have to..... so I will say that we do know what he thinks... unless of course, he was joking.

Or an unwitting act of Satanism......

I'm not sure that it does matter. If Trump truly is a Cyrus-like figure being used by God then he doesn't have to be a believer. However, anybody that is used by God to do good often becomes a believer eventually, as it's God's way of reaching out to them. That's why I'm not criticising Trump - he'll find Jesus in his own time. In the meantime I don't believe he is a true born-again believer, and that's not against the rules. The moment that Donald Trump joins this forum and becomes a member then it will be against the rules!

That's not the same thing. I haven't said anything that excludes me from being a Christian. If I said that I sacrificed children and worshiped Satan then that would exclude me from being Christian, even if I said I was a Christian and attended church. Trump has said things that a Christian would not say, so I don't believe he is a born-again believer. He may become one, and I believe he may be close to it (at the seeker stage) but his words and actions do not support the understanding of one who knows what Christianity really is. We are told to discern all things by scripture, and we are told to test all things and hold to that which is true. We can judge others by their words and actions - (John 7:24) we cannot know what is truly in their heart and we cannot condemn them, but we can judge whether their doctrine is sound or not!

I've said that I don't think he is, and that is allowed. I'm not critisising him, but I a giving my opinion on whether he is a true believer based on his own words and actions - not on my own perception. He was asked in an interview if he ever prays to God for forgiveness and he said that he never does because he doesn't need it. No true Christian would say that. We're all sinners and we all need forgiveness. Anybody can attend a church and be baptised.