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Last Daze

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  1. Last Daze
    Its an interesting topic that I've been contemplating lately. What we know in addition to the verse you quoted: John said he was not Elijah. John 1:21 John was a forerunner of Christ in the spirit and power of Elijah. Luke 1:17 Jesus stated that Elijah both did come and will come to restore all things. Matt 17:11, Mark 9:11-12 Jesus is in heaven until the period of restoration of all things. Acts 3:20-21 There is apparently a spiritual aspect and a natural aspect to the forerunner of Christ. The spiritual Elijah, John, was the forerunner of His first coming and the natural Elijah will precede His second coming. The spiritual Elijah was the forerunner of the new covenant, the spiritual kingdom of God within. The natural Elijah will be the forerunner of His return when He establishes His natural kingdom on earth. To me, it strengthens the notion of the duality of a natural and a spiritual aspect of things in scripture. I agree that it's quite possible for Elijah to be one of the two witnesses. And I can see where he might be a forerunner to the Jews that have fled and are protected for 3.5 years, which is also the duration of the ministry of the two witnesses.
  2. Last Daze
    What I'm saying is that I don't see that the covenant is ever broken. It is confirmed for the full seven years. I acknowledge that the prophecy of the seventieth week is a bit of a puzzle. My recent thoughts on it are in this post.
  3. Last Daze
    Good observation. It can be challenging at times to look at things objectively, present the scriptures that support your view, clarify, and leave it to the Holy Spirit to do His work. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies. 1 Corinthians 8:1b We need knowledge but we need to avoid the arrogance that comes with it.
  4. Last Daze
    If you wish to ignore what the scriptures clearly say, that's up to you. I don't recommend it.
  5. Last Daze
    For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 Those who are Christ's are made immortal at His coming as the scriptures state. Being raised from the dead is not the same as being raised immortal.
  6. Last Daze
    It happens at the last trumpet on the last day Marv. Haven't you read?
  7. Last Daze
    I honestly don't know what you're getting at. Are you saying that it is going to take Jesus 1000 years to resurrect those who believe in Him? And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44 Maybe if you included some specific scriptures . . . ? Like the one that says that "the last day" extends for over 1000 years.
  8. Last Daze
    Very true SinnerSaved. It's not about winning a debate. It's not an "us vs. them" as some here have indicated. It's about being ready and prepared. With what's at stake you'd think people would be doubly careful to get it right so as to not risk misleading people or giving them a false sense of security. It's important for me to strive to be thorough and accurate in order to get a better idea of what we are to be ready and prepared for. I've had to adjust my eschatology numerous times when it was shown to me by the Holy Spirit through the Word that I was wrong. It's one thing to be wrong. Its another thing to stay wrong because of pride. May God give us discernment. And may God strengthen us to persevere and endure to the end.
  9. Last Daze
    I agree. Kind of makes me wonder if something else is at work, especially after it's been pointed out and willingly ignored.
  10. Last Daze
    It's a very tricky endeavor to try and understand our own motives. The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it? I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind. Jeremiah 17:9-10a God knows our hearts and tests us. The results are there if we look honestly.
  11. Last Daze
    Yes, Jesus clearly states that those who believe in Him will be raised immortal on the last day. Paul also tells us that that it is at the last trumpet. Isn't it odd that pretribbers offer no scriptural explanation as to when these two explicitly stated timings are?
  12. Last Daze
    Error begets error. Let the scriptures speak plainly. Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 What does this passage plainly reveal? We are gathered together to Christ at His coming. Christ's coming and our gathering to Him happen on the day of the Lord. That event will not happen until after the apostasy and revealing of the man of sin. Our gathering to Him at His coming is clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming. These verses show that the rapture is on the day of the Lord which is at His coming. Your "carefully understood explanation" fails because you do not distinguish between "the day of the Lord", "the tribulation period", and "God's wrath". Since the foundation isn't square, neither will the rest of the building be.
  13. Last Daze
    Really, there is a huge difference. Daniel 9:27 states that the strengthening of the covenant lasts for seven years. For seven years it will last.
  14. Last Daze
    There is a difference between "making" an agreement for a specific duration (which may or may not be kept as you describe) and actively "confirming" an existing agreement for a specified duration. If a covenant is to be confirmed or strengthened for seven years then of necessity it requires seven years to complete. Daniel 9:27 gives no indication that a covenant is made, only strengthened, an activity that must take place for the specified length of time.
  15. Last Daze
    No, they absolutely did not. Imminence debunked: Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-3 Why perpetuate a fallacy? I will heed the word of Paul and not be deceived by imminence. You should too.
  16. Last Daze
    I thought we were talking about Daniel 9, not whether covenants can be broken or not. Of course they can be broken. So? There's no breaking of a covenant in Daniel 9. Daniel 9 says nothing about confirming a seven year covenant. It says a covenant will be confirmed for seven years. This may be why you're confused. Stop and reflect on the difference between the two. What does Daniel say? And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: Daniel 9:27a Does it say "confirm a seven year covenant". No. It says confirm a covenant for seven years (one week). You really need to get that much settled before you try to move on. Because error begets error.
  17. Last Daze
    The prophecy quite clearly states that the covenant is confirmed for seven years. It will be confirmed for a full seven years. Start with that because that's what is plainly stated. The notion of a seven year treaty or covenant which is broken in the middle has zero support from Daniel 9.
  18. Last Daze
    The prophecy says "confirmed" or "strengthened" for seven years. It does not say "make a covenant for seven years, confirm it for 3.5 years then break it" so your wedding vow analogy is bogus. The covenant is not made for seven years. The covenant is confirmed for seven years. Therefore, it can not be broken. Absolutely nothing says the covenant is broken. It says it is confirmed.
  19. Last Daze
    Either the covenant is confirmed for seven years, or it is confirmed for ~3.5 years and then broken. It can't be both. Here is what Daniel 9:27 states: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: Daniel 9:27a How long is the covenant confirmed for? Seven years. If the covenant is broken, it ceases being confirmed doesn't it? If the covenant is broken before the full seven years is completed then it isn't confirmed for seven years. Is it? The confirming of the covenant last for a full seven years according to Daniel 9:27.
  20. Last Daze
    Its a distinct possibility that we need to be ready for given how tenuous the political and economic situations are. When the man of sin deceives the world and issues the "worship or die" ultimatum, those who lose their lives for Jesus' sake will find them. “Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth." Luke 21:34-35 A good reminder for us to stay detached from the things of this world. We're "just passing through."
  21. Last Daze
    I've yet to hear a good explanation as to how a covenant can be confirmed for seven years when it's broken in the middle, or am I missing something?
  22. Last Daze
    You embellish "know the day or the hour" into "know more the day or the hour" and call that one of the strongest reasons of support for the pretrib fallacy? 2 Thessalonians 2:3 clearly states that our gathering together to Him happens after something. Something else comes first. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. That one verse alone dispels the imminence fallacy. The rapture must come after the apostasy and revealing of the man of sin. The day or hour would still be unknown. No problem at all. If anyone is honestly interested in understanding the timing of the rapture then start with the explicitly stated timing given by Jesus (the last day) and Paul (the last trumpet). There's no merit in making stuff up that misleads people.
  23. Last Daze
    Came across this verse and thought it might be worth considering in light of the above highlighted passage. And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things. Matthew 17:10-11 Thoughts?
  24. Last Daze
    That assumption is a whole 'nother discussion.
  25. Last Daze
    You are reading your Bible correctly. Some people refuse to discern between tribulation and wrath, who causes it and who's affected, because their view on prophecy relies heavily on confusing the two terms. What you have stated is true and there is no need to apologize for it. Those who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. In this world we will have tribulation. It's a recurring theme for the believer. Jesus stated that when the abomination of desolation was set up that it would begin a time of tribulation that would be the most intense that has ever been or will be. It will be a time of "great tribulation". We know the great tribulation is not God's wrath because: the great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation is set up. (Matthew 24:15-21) the great tribulation ends when the sixth seal is opened. (Compare Matthew 24:29-30a with Revelation 6:12-17) the sixth seal announces the beginning of the time of God's wrath. (Revelation 6:17) Consequently, the great tribulation, as defined by scripture, occurs before the time of God's wrath. It really is that simple. Some people just don't want to see it and so they don't.
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