seeking the lost

Omnipresence is a term in theology that means present everywhere. That would mean that Jesus Himself is here just as He said. Matthew 28:20 (NIV) and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” When Jesus appeared to John to give revelation this is how He identified Himself. Revelation 1:8 (NIV) “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Not only is He to come but also "is". The one who promised never to leave us is not absent from us. He is here and it is impossible for Him not to be here.

Do you not believe that God is able to distinguish the difference between those that are His and those who are not? Revelation 9:4 (KJV) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. When all of the trouble begins as stated here believers on the earth will have been sealed with the seal of God. This will be the safe place and they will not be harmed by those that are sent forth. God is our safety.

I agree that this is about the end. Does it not say that the harvest is the end of the world?

That is logical but that is not what the parable says. It clearly says that the tares are gathered out and burned first.

The parable of the virgins does not indicate that anybody is taken up or changed. There was a separation of foolish and wise. The foolish were on one side and the wise on the other. The foolish are on the left out side of the door that they are knocking on. Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and the tares that the tares are gathered out first and burned. How do you reconcile the parables that seem to indicate that the saints remain after the unrighteous are taken out?

Those who are part of the first resurrection are truly blessed but it does not include all Christians. Only those that have lost their lives during the tribulation are included. There is a danger to add to the list because of the warning not to add to the words of this prophesy. The first resurrection takes place at the end of the tribulation. This is not the LAST day that Jesus spoke about. The rest of the dead that are raised at the end of the thousand years includes the dead in Christ just as Jesus said.

The rapture is at least 1007 years away. The rapture takes place at the resurrection of those who are believers. This takes place as Jesus told us at the last day which is at the end of the thousand years. This is form John 6: 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. We will not precede them.

Adding to the scripture is not good because there is a warning against doing that. What ever your interpretation it is not allowable to add resurrections or raptures. There are only two resurrections listed and there can only be one time of the rapture. The rapture follows the resurrection at the end of the thousand years. Consider the primary text that tells of the rapture. 1 Thess. 4:13-18 13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words. Jesus Himself told us the time that believers will be raised in the gospel of John chapter 6. 40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” It is not a coincidence that there is a resurrection at the last day of the thousand years. This is the time that believer are raised and the time of the rapture

Adding to the scripture is not good because there is a warning against doing that. What ever your interpretation it is not allowable to add resurrections or raptures. There are only two resurrections listed and there can only be one time of the rapture. The rapture follows the resurrection at the end of the thousand years. Consider the primary text that tells of the rapture. 1 Thess. 4:13-18 13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words. Jesus Himself told us the time that believers will be raised in the gospel of John chapter 6. 40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” It is not a coincidence that there is a resurrection at the last day of the thousand years. This is the time that believer are raised and the time of the rapture.

Greetings JohnR7 Let us take a look at that. It is true that when a believer dies that they are with the LORD. 2 Corinthians 5: 6-8, 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD. This is not a or the rapture. Look at the scripture 1 Corinthians 15:51. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. The rapture is for those who will not see death but are changed in the moment of a twinkling of an eye. They are caught up and changed without seeing death. This is rapture or catching away.

Greetings Traveler The rapture happens at the end of the thousand years right after the dead in Christ are raised. It is not safe to add a resurrection and sneak in a rapture before this time. Jesus told us very clearly of the day that those who believe in Him will be raised. This resurrection of the believes is on the last day. At the end of the thousand years there is a resurrection, imagine that. That day is the LAST DAY.

These two statements seem to contradict each other. Am I missing something?

Greetings Traveler Christians are protected from the wrath of God by the seal of God. Revelation 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” The seal of the living God will protect us from the wrath of God but we will be able to withstand the rage of Satan by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and not loving their lives to the death. Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. The only time that there can be a rapture is after the dead in Christ are raised from the dead. It is very important to pay attention to these words from 1 Thessalonians 4. "13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." The time of the resurrection of those who are asleep in Christ is just as Jesus said it would be. Jesus spoke these words recorded for us in John 6. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. There is no question that the last day is at the end of the thousand years and it is there that we find a resurrection. The last day is the day after which there are no other days. The end of the thousand years is that day.

There is a rapture as defined by 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4. 1 Cor 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 1 Thess. 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. These are the primary texts for the rapture. Both of these texts require that the resurrection of the dead in Christ comes before the rapture. The resurrection of the dead in Christ is at the last day. We find that resurrection at the end of the thousand years. The purpose of the rapture is not to take us out of the world but to take us to a new heaven and a new earth. I would agree with you that there is not a rapture of the church before this time. Jesus taught that the wheat and the tares would grow together until the end. The tares are taken out first. A pre resurrection rapture turns that around. The wheat is not taken out first.

Who is it that can restrain evil? I would suggest that there is only one can do that. Government and authorities may have a part to some degree but it is the Holy Spirit that hinders/restrains evil. Romanism, they were wrong about that as well.

There is evidence for your argument of lawlessness. The restrainer is the same in the day that this was written to the Thessalonians and this day. There is not a person or a government that has endured for that period of time. The Holy Spirit does have that role. The Holy Spirit may work with and through people and governments but the Holy Spirit is the one that holds all things together.

I am assuming that you mean the resurrection of Jesus. The book of Revelation is a great example.

That was the difference between the wise and the foolish virgins. You may need more oil.

The context of chapter 7 is most interesting. Along with the 144,000 there is also a great multitude in white robes. The question is asked, "who are these?". The answer is given. The Great Multitude in White Robes 9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: “Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!” 13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. These are they that have come out of the great tribulation. They did not come out before the great tribulation. Do you not know about those that overcome? Revelation 12: 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Christians are equipped to overcome not even loving their lives unto death. The devil may kill many but it does not mean that he overcomes them. You may need more oil.

Exegesis has to be faithful to the text and not read things into it that it does not say but that you want to be there. Take a look at the wheat and tares. Matthew 13: 24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Jesus says that the wheat and the tares grow together until the end. Jesus says nothing about 70 weeks. That is continued growth until the end then the trares are taken out first. Looking forward to being left behind.

No, NO, No! None of this is about a pre-resurrection rapture. We will be there forever but it is not by way of rapture to avoid wrath. It is the cross and the atonement of the cross by which we are saved from wrath and will ever be with the LORD. 2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

You speak of preconceived notions. The premise of your notion is faulty at best. The scripture from 1 Thessalonians 5: 8-10. 1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Your preconceived notion is that this means rapture before wrath. There is no exegesis that draws that conclusion. This assumes that God is incapable of distinguishing between wheat and tares and He must take the wheat out first before He can bun the tares. This is opposite of the teaching of Jesus. Time and again during our discussion I have provided text after text to you but none of it applies to you because it was not written to you. Therefore none of the scripture applies to you because it was written to somebody else. Concerning adding. The rapture follows the resurrection of the dead in Christ at the end of the thousand years. The question of adding, making up a resurrection and placing it before wrath, this is adding to the text.

Jesus and John both have the event of the dead in Christ rising at the end of the thousand years. That is what Revelation 20 is all about. There is nothing in the writing of Paul in Corinthians or Thessalonians that indicate that the time of the dead in Christ will rise before the wrath. The one verse that prevents the double event from being before wrath is, Revelation 22: 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. All of our conversation is about the event of the dead in Christ rising. You want to add a resurrection (dead in Christ rising) before the wrath. I say that is not a good idea.

Whatever Greek gymnastics that you use there is not a resurrection before The last day that will support the we will not precede them of 1 Thessalonians. What part of we will not precede them is it that you do not understand?

John who received the revelation from Jesus was well aware of the resurrection of Jesus and yet he declares that the resurrection at the end of the tribulation is the first resurrection. The resurrection of the dead is yet a future hope and the rapture will follow as the believers are raised up on the last day at the end of the thousand years. This is our blessed hope.