Fran C

See Farouk....The above is beautiful and a blessing to every Christian. Know the problem?: It doesn't represent your faith system. Come on over to this side...you belong with us. That would be those that believe that God is loving and merciful and just. Amen.

Agreed on the above. Let's remember that God always looks at the heart. And I just want to say that it's a shame that some unbelievers live a better life than some believers.

I'm back. Indeed, the preaching of Jesus to the spirits in prison has always been a mystery and I agree 100% with you that any doctrine we've been able to come up with is indeed not sound. I DID find some very interesting comments in a Catholic Bible edited or commented on by Dr. Scott Hahn, a very respected Catholic theologian that used to be Protestant. He also writes some very good books on different topics. Here is what I found...I think you'll find it interesting: (the commentary is a page long). The benefit of retrieving this forgotten perspective is obvious for interpreting 1 Pet 3:18-20. It seems now that "the spirits in prison" are not human souls at all, but fallen angels whose wickedness was closely connected with the flood in Jewish tradition. This accords well with the frequent use of "spirits" for angels in the NT (Mt 12:45; Lk 10:20; Heb 1:14) source: https://www.familyofsaintsharbel.org/uploads/1/2/4/2/124289884/ignatius_catholic_study_bible_new_testament_text___commentary.pdf The above is on page 456 of the PDG format.

Hi Michael I'd like to make two comments: 1. I really do not believe the CC uses 1 Peter 3:18-19 as proof text for purgatory. If you read this somewhere, I'd sure be interested in seeing it. 2. The CC does have a non-definitive belief for the passage about Jesus preaching to the souls in prison (can't remember exactly how it's worded right now) and I'd be happy to pass it along. Will wait for your reply. PS I'm not Catholic but I do know the doctrine.

I try my best to understand members. I DID ask if I understood you correctly. We're speaking past each other. I agree that we are not changed by good deeds only. Good deeds do not save a person. Our behavior is brought about by our love for Jesus. Agreed. Right. We do good works because of our salvation and because we're saved. What I'm saying is this: You agree that our transformation is brought about by our love for Jesus. Right. What I said is that IF there is no transformation in a person's life, it's difficult to understand how that person is saved. Do you agree that some kind of change must take place in a person's life if they're a born again person?

No, I don't need verses. I agree with the above. It's not how I understand 1 Cor 3 or otherwise Catholics who attribute purgatory to these verses would be correct - however it's too late now and I must sign off. However, I do agree with the4 premise. Could you read Matthew 10:41 and give your understanding? Tomorrow...

Not sure what you mean. Here are the answers to my questions: 1. We cannot judge a person's soul. Only God can judge the condition of our soul. 2. We CAN judge another person's behavior or doctrinal belief. If this were not true then Matthew 18:15.....would make no sense. As to taking things personally....on these forums there are many personal comments made that should not be made. We should always address the topic at hand and not the person. Regarding works....could you read Matthew 10:41 and post what you think of it? I believe that born again persons are saved but some kind of judgment will come at the end. In Christianity it's called the Bema Seat judgment. This means that the WORKS of the saved person are judged....maybe as to motive....maybe as to quantity....maybe as to why we didn't obey the Holy Spirit more... However, I don't feel I know enough about this and hope that others will join in.

You've added to your post.... So: What do you mean by judging one another? 1. §Can I judge the condition of your soul? 2. Can I judge re a doctrine you believe that seems to be incorrect? And, the NT speaks about being judged after death,,,thus my question to you....do you believe we are judged after death? Read this verse and give your understanding: John 5:28-29 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Start a thread!

The above is not for me but for @Vine Abider. but....do you believe that saved persons will be judged after death? What will they be judged for if they're already saved?

Agreed on all. It's difficult to post every little thing you believe in every single post....I was concentrating on what I thought someone said about being born again but showing no transformation. (maybe they meant never). Agreed again. The Holy Spirit will work in us as long as we allow Him to. We don't lose our free will when we become saved. The above is more re the point I was making. IF we don't let God grow us and operate in us, doesn't that mean that we have not accepted Him? The change might be gradual or it might be over-night (as in some cases), but the change SHOULD be seen in a person.

If salvation is not based on a transformed life... could you please explain the following verse?: Transformation means to change from one thing to another...it's the change that is required of us to live a life pleasing to God. Romans 12:2 2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. 2 Corinthians 5:17 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 2 Corinthians 3:18 18And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. 1 John 3:3 3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. There are many more if needed. You're saying that a transformed life is not necessary in order to be pleasing to God. Have I understood correctly?? Could you post some verses to support this view? Thanks.

Where does it state that we are saved by JESUS' faith in Eph 2:8?? Eph 2:8 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Hi I've come back to this forum after quite a few years. I've noticed that I'm involved, taking part I should say, in a few threads but I never get alerted when someone is posting on these threads. It would help to make members be more parcipitory and feel like a part of the group of members. Also, this double spacing is making me crazy and it always separates my verse from it's "title". And how about a uniform size for the body? I think it might be helpful if these changes were put into place... but I must say that I like it here because it's not as rough as some forums are....some members on other forums hardly seem to be acting as Christians should be. Just some ideas! Blessings Fran

Sorry, I don't know to what you're referring. I'm not speaking about the works of the Law -or, in this conversation, any works.