WholeyGod'schild

yes my point, the Holy Spirit will removed from holding all things back. we as the children of God will be leave with the Holy spirit.

well since you have, I don't see how you can see the power of God stand by while the antichrist rules two opposing wills in battle? see when Jesus returns with just the words of his mouth will set things asunder. The demons not in power, asked Jesus full of the holy spirit, have you come to destroy us, before our time? the Holy spirit's presence doesn't allow the demons to stand, let alone function. so where in the scripture does it say the Holy spirit will be present? please refer to the said scripture that you stand on.

Wow! Sir I don't know what to tell you. your trying so hard to prove your point you are twisting scripture and calling God's words metaphors. please read what you what you wrote and scriptures you put together, that in turn makes zero sense. Taken verbatim from what you posted: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revelation 19:9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” See, it says blessed are those who are called to it, nothing about it having taken place, and that is because it hasn't happened yet. The supper is not for us to eat, it is for the birds. Revelation 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- so how does the Marriage supper of the lamb have metaphor or have a meaning of feeding birds? "these are true sayings of God" it doesn't say these are metaphors or parables of God. The marriage supper is for the children of God not birds. And Jesus said in Matthew 26:29 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until the day when I drink it anew with you in My Father’s” kingdom. Where did he say this at? he said it at his last supper with his disciples, it wasn't a metaphor. Now again I tell you God has promised us that he will return for us, and as a time no man knows when he returns. Matthew 25:8-13 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12 But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour. no man knows the day or hour. so if we are to remain till the end and watch Jesus return on a white horse well, we will see the day and hour, we will know the time, we will see the proverbial thief walking up the drive way (Matthew 24:43 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.) so no Jesus return will be sudden and unexpected as mentioned in multiple scriptures, multiple times. now to your claim the returning army will be the dead in Christ ( The deceased follow Him out of heaven, those who are alive and remain meet them in the air, not so complicated. Paul is clear that He is bringing with Him those who sleep in Jesus only, that means dead people.) please tell me how the dead in Christ are riding out with out the saints when the word of God says: 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. it says nothing about the dead in Christ riding in when the shout of the Lord and the trump of God. in fact it says the said shout and trump is when the dead in Christ will rise, then the remaining (the ones still alive) are caught up with them to forever be with our king and savoir. but note it lacks one sentence, scripture, reference, assumption, or inference to Jesus riding out on his white horse during this gathering. a matter of fact it says the same way he left he will return Acts 1:11 11“Men of Galilee, they said, “Why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” Unless I am mistaken, he didn't leave on a white horse when he Ascended into heaven. Luke 21:28 28When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” For let the Word of God stand and speak for itself. please remain true to the word of God. Be blessed

your response to my post makes no sense. I never mentioned there is no punishment for the wicked. As for who the Holy Spirit is, and the power of the spirit of God, and why he was sent stands. I am not sure if you have ever had the Holy spirit fall upon you, but if you have, your above response would stand in stark contrast to what you experienced. Don't try to deny the power of God. the power of God wouldn't allow the anti Christ to stand on his feet let alone rule while they Holy spirit is still in place. That would be likening a man saying I can stand and move in 300mph winds, it isn't happening. if you believe the above martyrs are referred to in Revelation 6:9 and the ones that suddenly appear and are dressed in white with robes dipped in the blood of the lamb in Revelation 7:9 are one in the same, well I don't know what to tell you, there is a clear and concise delineation between the two. there is zero reason for the scripture to mention the same group of people in successive scripture described different ways. I guess we will have to disagree.

Matthew 24:36-44 36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,e but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him. Revelation 19 6And I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude, like the rushing of many waters, and like a mighty rumbling of thunder, crying out: “Hallelujah! For our Lord God, the Almighty, reigns. 7Let us rejoice and celebrate and give Him the glory. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready. 8She was given clothing of fine linen, linen bright and pure.” The above stands in stark contrast to following passage which is mention after in Revelation, two spate events. Revelation 19:11-21 The Rider on the White Horse 11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,a and His name is The Word of God. 14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.b He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh: King of kings and Lord of lords. Defeat of the Beast and False Prophet 17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.” 19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse. And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. Look at the difference between the marriage supper of the lamb with the bride, and her being clothed, then and only then does Jesus mount his white horse and comes and wages war on the sinners that have come against him and his saints. Two separate events with a clear dividing line. if you can't see that, please explain how and why it talks of the bride (saints of God) getting her clothes and having the supper with him, then his getting on the horse if we are supposed to be here waiting for him to appear on the white horse to gather us then wage war? God bless, stay true to the gospel.

Are you trying to say that the rapture and the second coming are one in the same? The rapture is the gathering of the saints, the second coming is when Jesus shows up with heavens armies, and saints to destroy the armies that gathered against him and Israel. Two separate events.

I admit I was wrong. Looking deeper into samaritans, it shows they were miss placed children of Israel. They took a alternate path towards God away from their kinsman the ones that still followed the teachings of Moses. So they were viewed as less then the others, following their beliefs which were called Samaritan beliefs. I guess that speaks to what the woman at the well says about her ancestry, and the original source off the well. So yes you are 100% correct I am wrong

this is today, happening now. 9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. we are, have been living this passage for right at 100years now, and maybe longer as unseen/reported events. so the day/hour can and should be any moment from here on out. many prophecies have been fulfilled in the last 70 years and signs and wonders laying out that correlate to all of the above and must happen first before the lords return. I can't think of anymore prophecies that need to happen before the rapture(the twigs are getting tender, the leaves are coming out). I believe the tribulation (time of trouble and affliction)has been going on for a long time. when the church is raptured we will have just started or will start the great tribulation the beginning of the end. you obviously willfully ignored my post and passage I posted showing you Jesus went to the Samaritans. now if you feel like calling God's plan and actions a mistake, well sir that is on you. I myself believe all things ordained by God, and told to Jesus to do was part of a plan and was purposeful. I will post again what I said this time read the passage, and I will post the full passage for you to read and ponder, then you tell me if I am missing something or are you the one missing something not so subtle. you also will notice for some reason all the disciples went to town not one stayed with Jesus. it took 12 people to go get food? maybe it has to do with the disciples known reaction to Jesus when he encounters a person or people that they think he shouldn't even talk to let alone strike up a conversation and ask for them to do something for him. God knows and has a plan like it or not, it may not agree, or line up with our views/perceptions, but he is God, he is sovereign, his actions are yes and amen! now please read this thoroughly. Also look at the woman at the well, in John 4 he talks with her and brings salvation to her. If he was planning on bringing salvation to the Jews alone, the conversation would have never happened, unless you Believe Jesus made a mistake or didn't have a plan that was unfolding before the readers eyes. then it progresses to other Samaritans receiving his living water. Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon. 7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.) 9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a]) 10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.” 11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?” 13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” 15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.” 16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.” 17 “I have no husband,” she replied. Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.” 19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” 21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” 25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.” 26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.” The Disciples Rejoin Jesus 27 Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?” 28 Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29 “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” 30 They came out of the town and made their way toward him. 31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.” 32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.” 33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?” 34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.” Many Samaritans Believe 39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers. 42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.” Be blessed

In Malachi he says Elijah will be sent to turn the hearts of fathers and children, people (Jews hearts will be turned). not all of Israel, just people that listen. please don't try to qualify or quantify by a scripture that is also expressed in Revelation 11 tells the power God gives them that will cause many men not race specific to turn to God by the wonders and power of God shown through them as the preach repentance. Zechariah speaks of the remnant that remains faithful unto God through the tribulation and doesn't take the mark of the beast, most assuredly the ones that run to the hills. they will be the ones (in my opinion, no scripture to back it up) that remain on this earth reigning for 1000 years, before satan is released one last time before being put down for eternity. I think they will be the ones paid to clean up all the dead bodies, and paid to find bones and burry them for the next 7 years. yes they must atone (makes amends, change their heart, turn to God) that isn't God protecting them, that is them realizing they messed up and rejected the true and one son for the living God. How would you or did you get God's protection out of that? see, as you know the Tribulation isn't God killing people, it is his wrath poured out on all mankind. People will be suffering, and in extreme anguish still refusing to turn to God. But there will be people that realize they missed the many signs and wonders, and rejected the true teaching of God over the years. So people will realize they messed up and return to God. Mostly Jews since they have the deepest teaching of God, but lack Jesus in their life. There will be a few Gentiles that turn, but most of them will be the ones that missed the rapture through false teaching, or rejection of teaching of God's truth. The only time it will be over (no chance of salvation, going to hell for eternity) for anyone is 3 things, 1) They rejected Jesus and die before excepting him as their lord and savoir, 2) they take the mark of the beast (turning their soul over to satan). 3)Blasphemy of the Holy spirit. they have till the Return of Jesus on the mount of olives to repent. Then they have 1000 year period to not be let over to the sins of flesh, and deception of Satan for the short release he has. but if failure to turn to God through the blood of Jesus, they will die. Jew and Gentile have zero leg up on one another, or special protection. only leg up one person has on another is knowing of God's truth and being able to turn their prerapture teaching into their subsequent return to God's truth and the blood of Jesus. holding out in the hills and not in the city will help all mankind to avoid false teachings, murder from people looking to take advantage of the time, and new media that helps the antichrist spread his false doctrine. also many people will be forced to take the mark of the beast in order to shop, trade or travel for a time, and if someone doesn't have knowledge or a root in Christ, they might just fall for the deception. Let the reader understand and run for the hills Mark 13:14 yes the 144,000 are the saints of God that have kept themselves pure unto him (virgins, they haven't let the sin of this world corrupt them.) they were the first fruits. are they here today and have remained pure? where they in Jesus time and bought through his blood (some of his students that were pure)? where they the first fruits (first born and redeemed /bought) as instructed by God to Moses? or is it a combination of all three, we don't know, but we do know they are all from one of the tribes, all children from the line of Israel. Revelation 14:4-5 4These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 5And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless. Jesus came to save all Jew and Gentile his actions prove it, and his directions to his disciples tell them his plan. Jesus brought salvation first to the Israelite, then the Gentile. 23But Jesus did not answer a word. So His disciples came and urged Him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. 26But Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28“O woman,” Jesus answered, “your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour. Also look at the woman at the well, in John 4 he talks with her and brings salvation to her. If he was planning on bringing salvation to the Jews alone, the conversation would have never happened, unless you Believe Jesus made a mistake or didn't have a plan that was unfolding before the readers eyes. then it progresses to other Samaritans receiving his living water. 39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers. 42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.” All that turn their back on God, and the blood of Jesus are blind and will not know it, they become blind guides. first the Jew, and now even people that claim to know Jesus have slipped and are blind guides (lots of TV preachers). so as when Jesus came to save all, he started in the hearts of the Israelites, and carried it unto the Gentiles. That is spoken of in many passages throughout the new and old testament, the events weren't a mistake and were known well before by God. I leave you with this passages that kind of encompasses the above in whole and the failings of the Israelite people. Matthew 23:38-39 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’” Luke 13:34-35 34O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling. 35Look, your house is left to you desolate. And I tell you, you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’” they won't see God or protection till they say: "Baruch HaShem Adonai Eloheynu" Blessed be the name of the Lord our God. Be blessed.

I was speaking of the country Israel, we both agree then that people that run to the hills will not suffer in the land. But as for them being held from the wrath of God, we have to disagree. God has set forth those that have rejected his son Jesus the Messiah, will suffer his wrath in the last days. Romans 1:18-24 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them up in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen There will be the 144,000 that are gathered. that held themselves Holy unto God. If you believe that just because they are decedents of Abraham, they will be spared God's wrath, you are in serious error. John 3:35-36 35The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in His hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.” as you see anyone (Jew, Gentile, Free, Slave) who Reject the only Son of God, our savoir and God Jesus Christ, they are already condemned. Only way to recover is to be one of the 144,000 that has kept themselves pure unto God, find Jesus as your lord and savoir and survive till the end in the hills, or Die for your beliefs. Now is the time, not during the tribulation to except Jesus as your lord and savior. Being cousin of Jesus through flesh gets you nowhere, only being covered in the blood and being reborn unto his gift of life can you be saved. John 3:16 says it all. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. ahh no. Luke 19:9 9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.” Galatians 3:28 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Jesus came to save the lost not the "Jews." He died for our sins so we Jew and Gentile are lost sheep, that are grateful to our King, Savoir, Sheppard, God Jesus the Messiah. We are all raised up into life into him and his kingdom, for we are now known as the Children, Temple, and Body of Christ. For the Gentiles are now graphed into the vine, the root of David, the one true God through his gift and sacrifice. Romans 11:13-24 13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[b] of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. in case you are wondering, I am a Messianic Jew.

7Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. The people of God will not be in Israel, Israel will not be a safe place. God has given His spirit to his children has their source and light. God has called the nations unto him. the ones that reject Jesus or go on teaching false doctrine to his children will be the ones left in the time of tribulation. They will turn back to God, or people will turn to him and become saints and will have to suffer through the tribulation for their actions. The ones called the children of God are spoken of and Bolden above. you Received Jesus as your Lord and savoir and your name is written in the lambs book of life. We are called the children of God Bought and paid for by his blood, and he died so we will not have to. He rose again on the third day as a testament to his power and to bring final words to his disciples. for the old has passed away and the new has come, upon his sacrifice. We rose with him on the third day to a new life, that he gave us. 19Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.” John 2:19 as to your naked claim of God's people being conquer: 16Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16 I sure hope you aren't trying to claim Satan conquers over God and his children. If so, you my friend need to evaluate whom you worship and what you understand. Revelation 7: 9-14 Praise from the Great Multitude 9After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever! Amen.” 13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?” 14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.” So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. If you care to notice the listing of the great multitude from the many tongues, and nations. also notice the question of where did they come from. Why would that question be asked if they all had been there the whole time with the ones under the alter mentioned earlier called Martyrs in revelation 6:9? Israel isn't protected, will it be destroyed no, but it isn't protected from the wrath. Matthew 24: 15-22 15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak. 19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened If you notice the are told to run to the Mountains. as for the wheat and tares has to do with the end and gathering of the false teachers, sinners, and those that turned their back on God. It has nothing to do with Israel. Matthew 13:24-30 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

yes God is Omnipresent and omnipotent. it says I will poor out my spirit on all flesh, but does it say it will remain on all flesh? It also speaks of prophesying which happens to people when the spirit is upon them. so that brings us to the issue of acceptance and rejection of God come in the flesh. If you reject God does his spirit enter you or there for remain upon you? the answer is no. In Joel he is talking about Jesus coming and redeeming the people with his sacrifice. upon his ascension to heaven he sent his spirit upon all flesh Jew and Gentile that excepted him, no longer just the decedents of Abraham. His spirit doesn't remain with or enter sinners (people that reject him and his gift). we there for have a distinction that God's people are covered and remain in the spirit of God, the sinner has no part in God, so therefore has no part in the Holy spirit. I know many want all to make it out to be, and believe God won't allow anyone even sinners and people living in the flesh to die or be separated from God, but that just isn't the case. That is why in Matthew 24:14 Jesus says 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. he says that because everyone has to have a chance to except or reject God, before they are judged. That is also why there is a urgency to preach salvation to the nations before the great tribulation. For once the rapture happens it only gets harder to find God (as in the days of Noah). For the one that reject God and his plan will suffer, many will remain obstinate in there rejection but some will turn to God during the tribulation. you need to ask yourself Why will it get harder? what changes? the Answer is the Holy spirit it removed from the earth, the peace of God that once remained is now taken up. The Holy Spirit doesn't have to be present for men to realize they missed the mark, turned from God, rejected his truth. God existed in the hearts and minds, and was known by men from Adam to when Moses built the Ark for the Holy spirit to remain in, from then till today. the only thing that changed was when Jesus showed up, the Ark was no longer needed, the curtain was rendered null and void. Jesus Brought the Holy Spirit to mankind through his sacrifice, and made us Holy, and worthy to be called Children of God, and to have the Holy spirit guide us into all truth. So if you reject God, you Reject and all things God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). So no the Holy Spirit doesn't have to be here for men to hear and know about God. For all men will know there is a God and will find him true as the tribulation happens. that is why it talks throughout Revelation that despite the disasters men still refused to turn to God, not that they didn't yield to the draw of the Spirit. The chance to experience the Holy spirit is now, before you are drawn to God in repentance from the events around you in the tribulation. As in the Days of Noah! you need to look at what it says very specifically: I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. many throughout time have been slain for the word of God from Just after Jesus ascended to heaven (Stephen) to most every disciple died for the kingdom of God and the word of their testimony. it is happening today in the middle east and even here in America. referring back to Revelations 7, it talks about the ones standing before God with there Robes dipped in blood of the lamb, so Christians. 7:13 13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” sounds to me like they suddenly appeared since it is asked "where did they come from." so it is to be said again we don't know but if you look you can see a distinct difference between the two sets of people in Robes before God worshiping. Be blessed

I agree that it isn't post Trib. I don't see how Satan can run around free ruling here and making a mockery of God and standing in the temple declaring he is God, with the Holy spirit here and there for the children of God remaining here. so at some point before the antichrist reveals himself, the Holy spirit will be removed from here and Satan will have his limited full reign here, "his time". Revelations 7 9-17 NIV The Great Multitude in White Robes 9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: “Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!” 13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence. 16 ‘Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat down on them,’[a] nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’[b] ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]” if you see above where I Bolden the area of reference. "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." that sounds to ME like the people whom gave there life over to Jesus and were washed in the blood of the lamb, Christians! Be blessed.

Revelation 7:9 says it all about the rapture. it doesn't say the exact time but it is noted well before the end of the tribulation. if you think about it, the tribulation/antichrist can't come into power till the spirit of God (the Holy Spirit) is taken out of this world. well we as Christians are filled with the spirit of God upon our excepting of salvation, (we are the temple of God here on earth.) so either you believe you are a child of God and are taken with the Spirit as he is removed from holding the tribulation back, or you believe God takes his spirit from you (lose your salvation/comforter), and suffer through the tribulation with this world. now it is up to you to research what you believe is the intention and truly the heart of God for his children. does he leave his kids in the burning house or take them out before the fire consumes them?

Jesus was using Money in the parable for example of earning. The Parable teaches level of responsibility and tasks of the responsibility and rewards of them. example: God says I want you to believe in me, work in my gifts, treat others good, bring good news to the poor, lift others up and share my word with them, Pray for people, pray over people, declare my words spoken to others, Stand on my word and stand up for what is right. The man with ten talents went forth and brought the good news to others and enriched others lives as much as he could and was a willing participant in the labor for the kingdom of God, seeking God more and more and learning and earning the fullness of God. The man with 2 talents did the above and worked hard at it but wasn't asked to do as much, but did what he could with what he had. The man with 1 talent became fearful of God and his word, fearing messing up or being rejected. Feared his fellow man and what they might think of the gifts God had given him. So he buried his Christianity, the truth of God and his moral objection was withheld from others ears that needed to hear it. So he kept his Christianity to himself and minimized his risk or rejection, and saying the wrong thing. He never grew the kingdom, or his faith in God, he stayed on the umbilical cord, never growing to further the kingdom of God. So God said, you know it would be tough and it wasn't going to be easy, there was risk involved in what you did, and what you said. You know I ask much of my children and have laws that are hard to follow, but instead of going out and showing my love and drawing others to me, you chose to bury that light as to protect your worldly gifts and standing. Depart from me you evil doer I never knew you. Give the gifts and responsibility to the one that has shown much practice and trust in my service. For with much given come much responsibility. I don't know if you're aware, but I am going to assume you are well aware that the more you seek Christ, and step out in your belief, the more God asks of you and the more the world comes against you and rejects you and your beliefs. God will have you talk to more people, pray for more people, help more people, stand in the gap for more people, have more and more opportunities and boldness to preach God's word. For those that much is given much is expected. the parable of the 10 talents, not money, but Works for and in the kingdom of God. As you grow in Christ so does your responsibility or talents you are expected to work with.

you can never fully know Jesus Christ and his heart. We are called to seek him more and more everyday like a educational book with no end. the first step is talking with a Pastor or a person that is born again Christian. Discuss with them the macro and finer points of whom Christ is and his word. From there it is a choice of excepting him as your lord and savoir, or rejecting his truth and word. After excepting him as your king and savoir, it is a life long process of seeking and learning about him, more and more everyday. If any man says they have the answers or "know" God fully, they are lying and need not be spoken to any further. Now the process of "seeking God" is in prayer, getting into the word of God, fellowshipping with other believers and learning of what God has done in their lives, helping the less fortunate, giving with a open heart. Did I mention praying and getting into the word? LOL! God seeks for us everyday to know him more and more. The fullness for God comes into our lives as we put him first, and make seeking him a priority above all else and anyone else. Be blessed.

I will have to disagree. It's never "useless" to petition God for anything at anytime. yes the decision is made by the person. The judgment is just and true. But God is timeless, his love is greater then our fears and doubts. We call on him and ask of him he answers. Now the answer or decision is his alone and we may not like it, but he does consider our request. I know God has in mind what is to become of different sets of people and their destination depending on their life and choices. But till the day of physical judgment of sinners and redemption of the saints, our knowledge of his decision is still in limbo, Schrodinger's cat if you will. So to my point it is never a bad Idea to petition God weather it is going to effect change is in his hands. But all I know is we have ZERO clue the true heart and breadth of God's love and understanding. Be blessed.

Serve not to be served. we are to live by his example. Amen to your discovery. John 13:4-9 4 so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him. 6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?” 7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.” 8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.” 9 “Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!” Isaiah 58:10 If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. 1 John 3:17-18 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

Isaiah 45:9 9"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'? 1 Corinthians 10:22 Are we trying to provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He? God is a Jealous God, we are not to take the course of our life and/or life span into our own hands, as to tell God now is my time, in place of God saying now is your time. None of us will know the fate or the decision of God on this subject till the day of Judgment, by then there is not changing course. only thing you can do is seek God and petition him for your friends eternal destination. God does answer prayers and has been known to ease his judgment in the past when someone came to him with a request for consideration. Moses with the Israelites, Jonathan after he ate the honey and Saul had said previously let the life be taken of any man that eats prior to our victory. or Abrahams petition for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. God hears, listens and answers.

you might want to follow the course of history. This bible is the only book independently verified by other books as being truth ( events the bible claims have other books that verify that event happened). lets look from the beginning and progress to Christianity as it is. Genesis 1New International Version (NIV) The Beginning 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. So God created the life you live and the air you breath. but notice the Bolden area God said let us, meaning he is speaking to someone. John 1New International Version (NIV) The Word Became Flesh 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it. John 8 54-58 54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!” 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. so here we find the one God is speaking to in Genesis is Jesus Christ the Word of God. you might also notice that it mentions the words was with God and the word was God. so in it self it describes the deity of Christ Jesus. Jesus never claimed anything directly as described in John 8:54 above as to why. But he did reveal his deity and his trinity in unification as being God come in the flesh. described in John 10:30 John 10 24-30 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” Now that we have established that Christianity is truly the Jewish religion fulfilled as promised by God in his word. The thing that separates Jews from Messianic Jews (Christians) is we believer Jesus is the promised savior as described in Isaiah 7: 14-16 was fuflled by Jesus Christ, the Jews are still waiting the promise mentioned in Isaiah. all things were fulfilled in their sight but they couldn't see the truth for the sin in there hearts and the full plan of God was to take the Gift that was theirs alone and spread it to the gentiles and Jews alike. as mentioned here in a parable by Jesus himself describes the Jews rejection and corruption, and subsequent giving of the gift to the Gentiles. Matthew 21: 33-45 33Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it, and built a tower. Then he rented it out to some tenants and went away on a journey. 34When the harvest time drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his share of the crop. 35But the tenants seized his servants. They beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36Again, he sent other servants, more than the first group. But the tenants did the same to them. 37Finally, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said. 38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and take his inheritance!’ 39And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard returns, what will he do to those tenants?” 41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they declared, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his fruits in their seasons.” 42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes’j? 43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.k 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.” 45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them. 46Although they wanted to arrest Him, they feared the crowds, because they considered Jesus a prophet. so with that God offer his salvation to all men rich and poor, free or slave. Just by out faith in Jesus Christ as our savoir and promised kind, and the only son of God and has made us coheirs unto righteousness through his blood and sacrifice for our sins. Ephesians 3: 1-12 1For this reason, I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles... 2Surely you have heard about the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus. 7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace, given me through the working of His power. 8Though I am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to illuminate for everyone the stewardship of this mystery, which for ages past was hidden in God, who created all things. 10His purpose was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11according to the eternal purpose that He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12In Him and through faith in Him we may enter God’s presence with boldness and confidence. That is why we are Christians and Believe in the one true God that was born of a Virgin, lived a sinless life, but died a sinner death for you and me, risen from the dead after 3 days conquering death, and paying our fine on the cross. so now we have life, not death through him. we now are no long counted unworthy but worthy through him, by him. we are Christians because he loved us first, and made a way where there was no way. find a God that did all these things and was verified as doing so by more then one source. you can't. Jesus Christ is the one true and only God that did and showed love in doing so. as said above in another post Every religion says do, Jesus it is done for you. When he died for your sins his last words were it is finished!!! John 3:16-21 is something else to understand and consider 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. Be blessed and seek God and his truth. Anyone of us will be more then willing to help you through the sinner prayer and finding Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior.

I have and I felt the Holy spirit telling me this is not him, and it made me stand up and walk out. There is ritual, pagan action, performances, self serving people, showman, people educated to make a show of there time at the pulpit. Man has turned the word of God into a performance, and preaching into a art form full of tricks, one liners, zingers, and generally a man made event to earn praise, amen and some cash on the side. They preach God but don't know him or his power. They drag people through the mud call them sinners for not taking part in their show or agreeing with them. They are a modern day group of Pharisees. I can't bundle all the churches, but probable 90% of mega churches fall into the above issues. Many men are going find they missed the mark, the led many sheep astray by their actions. Being a pastor of a church is a blessed but dangerous job. you are responsible for peoples souls and understanding of God and his rules. Many many church goers depend on the pastor of the church to lead them, and disciple them. People can and should learn of God as their personal savoir and friend, but unfortunately as I said people seek the pastor to differentiate and explain to them about god and his truths. I promise you many mega churches and many churches in general would be empty, or seeking new pastors if they got into the word, and learned who God is for themselves instead of the pastor translating the word and who God is to them. Don't let rocking churches and pagan activities scare you away from the gifts of the Holy Spirit. you have to find the peace of God and the love of the Holy spirit in your prayer time. Satan Tries to make the Holy spirit and his gifts scary to people by way of these Pentecostal churches and bible thumping preachers. The Holy spirit is gentle, Kind, Patient, loving, calming, rejuvenating, filling, and your guide. God wants more of you and wants you to have more of him. Step out and feel the love and peace the Holy Spirit has for you. it is your choice, no man can make it for you, and God doesn't demand it, but requests it. it is in your court now to answers yes or no. Yes I am a Born again Spirit filled, Child of the most High God. in case you were wondering where I stand on the subject, and couldn't tell from my posts.

Speaking in tongues isn't a forced gift. God never forces anything on you. you willingly accept the gift or don't. God knows mans heart, if you are in the right mind set ( open heart and seeking the fullness of God and his gifts) and seek the gift it will be given. Man limits God and his gifts, God gives freely to man as we grow and mature. We there for associate with different denominations as they line up with our belief system and either adjust to the things they teach as fullness of God and what is God's will. As I said above we as man, limit God, saying you can give by these parameters. If we open up and seek more of God and not limit ourselves to what man says is right for them and seek what God says is right, we would all walk in a deeper fuller walk with God. The point I was making, and to address your point, the reason certain churches don't have the evidence of tongues is they don't want it, believe in it, or come to the teaching it isn't for everyone. As for mentioned we as man but parameters and limits on God. Ask yourself this, do "I" want to know the fullness of God, do I want to seek him deeper and deeper in prayer and gifts. If your answers is I am already full, well then you have your answer and you are stuck in the place you are, for your growth is based on you and your walk with Christ. If your answer is yes I want more of Christ and walk fuller and deeper in his gifts and service, well then turn off your computer find your prayer closet and get to work. God and his deeper walk is just knees and seeking him with a full open heart away.

and they turned the Truth of the Christ into Paganism. What once was a pure gospel turned into pagan rituals brought by former believers in roman gods that felt it was easier to worship by sight not by faith. Many found fortune and civil prosperity in the word of God and perverted it for their benefit. So no the RCC was not the church as the disciples brought it, but man made ritual and pagan action. not until the Word of God (bible) was allowed to be spread, thoroughly and completely did people learn the truth of God and salvation, that was once perverted for mans benefit by the roman catholic church. So they aren't the church let alone the first church. The church is the body of Christ that worships in spirit and in truth not in pagan ritual! We are saved by the sacrifice and obedience of our savior Jesus Christ, whom died a sinners death for us, so we can rise with him to a new life justified and made worthy. We were bought by Jesus blood, and saved with acceptance of that free gift. Not by tradition, ritual, or personal accomplishment. Be blessed and see the truth of God.